My only complaints are that there are not enough weapons for the size and potential player loads, and the lack of connectivity to the rest of map from the RG and RL rooms. To reinforce the comments made by Jonny Law re team play - with the quad spawning in the middle (these kinda become the control areas for team games between spawns. other routes in and out would have been nice). otherwise consistent theme and pretty nice item placement given what is there and the map's layout.

One of the best gothic levels. Great atmosphere. Free open space everywhere and a lot of vertical action. Fluent and very fast gameplay.
An all-time classic Q3 map to me.
Edited 1.93 minutes after the original posting.

Very enjoyable level. The aesthetics of this map are ageing like fine wine. It shows all the goodness quake3 comes from. Cheers.
Unfortunately I must add, the 'courtyard' (the dead end) is completely useless in instagib. There are no spawnpoints and bots don't go there.
Edited 2149.31 days after the original posting.

Yeah it looks really nice & it's fun if you like FreezeTag/CPM or just TDM. Download it!!

Wiebo, if you ever see any jobs offered for a 3D map maker for ANY game where you can get paid for it, send them No Class as your resume.

This has got to be one of THE BEST looking maps I've ever set eyes on. I was absolutely astounded at the complexity and size of the map! It's a great atmosphere for Q3A especially if you play against real people in it. Put on some old Black Sabbath and frag all night!

As far as the complaints about the heavier weapons too hard to get to, that's a GOOD thing, keep it up. I'm tired of getting fragged in just one shot by the heaviest weapons being too easy to get to. Keeping the BFG out was a good idea.

Great work man! :)

hmmm :) a great map once again my wiebo,this map and overkill are in my top alltime 10 maps,wiebo needs to be payed for his good work well done wiebo allways forward to mre maps from you.

chears WarMachine :)

Pretty nice detailing for such a huge level...

Looks awsome

10/10

just to let everyonre know...this map is in regular rotation at the burial grounds custom server

24.91.161.101:27961

weibo....i say it again, u da man

OK, here's the deal. You get a copy of Motorhead's "No sleep Till Hammersmith". You put it on at WAR VOLUME! then you load up this map and frag till you drop. Overkill was a masterpiece, and this is in the same league for sure. Looks great, plays great, bots like it, and it even sounds nice... what do I have to do, come round to your house and MAKE you download it? An excellent map in all respects, and thoroughly deserving of:

10/10

Just played this map over the last 2 days......I dont know how he does it but this map just gets better by the hour......my score just went from 8.5 to 10......I urge everyone to play this one for a while before scoring...it really does grow on you.

nive Wiebo.. very nice :D

Wiebo, deze map ziet er super uit. Helaas heb'k nog maar screenshots gezien, :( zucht, maar de map zal wel verbluffend zijn. Jij hebt talent. Btw ok de q3 textures zijn niet zo gevariëerd..en dan? moeten ze er hier altijd zo over zitten lullen? ongelooflijk. nooit tevreden. Vooral die octovus.

:)Toon die amerikanen maar eens dat wij europeanen niet te onderschatten zijn ! hehe

Mooi werk, net als overkill.

Inderdaad wat jammer van de bots, spelen ze op een skill lager dan nitemare, dan zijn ze meestal oliedom. :) sja kan je ze makkelijker fraggen eh.

Thanks for all the comments people. They are fair and their reasoning behind it is explained. But I really urge you to play this level with humans. The Q3 bots make a mess of the teamplay and FFA happens around the quad room. There is not a lot I can do about that, but play it agains humans and you'll see a totally different game, I assure you. And if you have a cool demo on this level, don't hesitate to send it to me (wiebo@planetquake.com) I'll appreciate it!

--Wiebo

You will find links to the Lakerbot and Clockbot by visiting:

www.botepidemic.com

Very nice detail!

I like the way the map looks.. But once again its subject to the same sort thing that I saw with the last level I checked out.

The map LOOKS fantastic but plays slow and has awful bot support. hmm

Well the eye candy is sure to make the map look good how ever its pretty big. I kinda see it as a small version of one of those 64 player dm maps. hehe

Unlike Short Circuit this maps detail does not effect the game play in any bad ways at all. That shows that the game play and lay out are in fact quite a bit better in my opnion. This map deserves a good rating for its raw skill in the detail department. How ever the game play seems to fall short quite a bit with the bots.

You know what though, maybe it just me but this map feels more like a Single player map for some reason. The way its laid out and its large size make it a much better Single player level. Im guilty of the same thing in one of my maps for quake 2 so I cant talk to much there. But if I were to sit back and judge Both my map and this one at the same time I would say that the extra detail and such should not have come before the game play. Of corse with my quake 2 map every one loved the eye candy so it all of a sudden had "A Great Lay out and game flow that is nothing like anything ever made for quake 2"

But when you get right down to it... Is the map really fun to play ? Does it keep you coming back because of its fast game play that takes skill to master?

neither of the levels did....

they just look nice and have way to much detail for a death match level.. You play em cuz they bring you to that location and create a good mood for killing like a movie. I might add a slow boring movie that looks fantastic....

I give it a 7 because it should be a Q3SP map =)

And for reference my quake 2 map I made like so long ago im sure you never hered of it.

www.fileplanet.com/index.asp

Echt een vette map Wiebo

nice map man.....still prefer overkill though :-)

8.5 outa 10

this is a phat map, though i dont like some of the parts were the bots dont work too great when only playing with three on a map(since i got a p1 processor)

i got a missing testure ,rather a blinker, but i see there is a map update. ill wait on the download.

i give it a 8.9

i'm still d/ling the map so i wont give it a score yet, i was just wondering what the webbies are for lakerbot aand clockbot?

geeweldige map wiebo!!!!

Wiebo is the man! this map is very kick ass!

'No Class!' (wdw3team1) is a superb-looking map. What it isn't, though is Overkill! II.

Well, so what? Wiebo de Wit wasn't setting out to make a sequel, and time will tell whether this map is not merely handsome but the outstanding TDM map he was aiming to create.

Nevertheless . . . I know that some of the people who have been anticipating the arrival of this map are Overkill! fans; in fact I found out this map was coming by reading about it on AGQ3 in a thread put up, I think, by players at Pit's who were enjoying Overkill! there. I'm sure they'll be as admiring at the moment as the rest of us, but I wonder whether on reflection doubts will start to creep in.

Overkill! isn't a perfect map by any means - for one thing, you can work your way outside it - but it was and perhaps still is unrivalled in its exuberant use of space. I loved this, and the fantastic bounce under/over the bridge over the red fog, and others more mobile than myself have left me with the impression that it's a great map for jumping around on. It's remained popular when other, technically better maps have dropped out of sight.

Somehow this quality of exuberance in the use of space is missing from 'No class!' Yes,apart from the superb detail the layout is very professional, the atrium is a very nice atrium and you can see how he's worked to meet the needs of TDM. But I wonder whether this focus on structuring the map for TDM hasn't somehow cramped his style a little: it's said that artists need constraints to focus their work but I'm not sure it's worked in this case.

It's true that this map has put Wiebo de Wit into that small band of mappers who can produce professional quality maps with superb detailing. But the other side of the coin is that there are several people who could have produced a map like this. Only Wiebo de Wit produced Overkill! No-one has produced anything quite like it since.

But, of course, we know one person who can.

WDW himself never answered if it's going to be an actual part of CPM. Is Corrosive on the CPM team or something (sorry but I don't know).

I actually have a harder time snagging the RA in CPM than I do in regular Q3. Thought that was kind of odd. Maybe it's just me?

It is an awesome map though. I also really liked Sinister Purpose (that is by the same person right?). Other than a couple of brush problems on that one (getting stuck) I thought it was excellent. This one is even better. :)

try the lakerbot and the clockbot, they are tons more fun than the in-game bots.

After a little more playing around with it, here's my more detailed thoughts.

The Quad room is great, although perhaps my personal tastes run toward the Q being a little more defensible. The shape of this room will make for some spiffy team-on-team gangfights.

To defend the Q room properly you really would need a whole team, and there's not enough supplies to hang out in there for long. So teams will almost certainly stage in other areas before doing a Q rush. Similar to Q3DM7 in that regard. However in Q3DM7 you have one clearly preferable large area (RA room) and another large area (RL/YA)... here you have a few different areas, all of which are not quite as big and don't have a complete complement of stuff in them. So a team should probably try to control both the RA and RL rooms between Quads. This could be an interesting dynamic, with probably more fighting between Quads than Q3DM7 and more organized map control than on the other standard TDM maps; hope to get some games on this soon.

Go Wiebo!

Nederlandse mappers roelen =)

just a quick comment about the bot play on this map....try playing with a few xaero bots on hardcore....he goes for all the weapons, and seems to roam the full map. BTW ,...Weibo this is an absolutely amazeing map, it's bigger than I normally like but the atmosphere is so great that I like it either way. One small criticism is that a lot of the small ledges aren't accessable,....I have tryed to rocket jump onto several, and i just slide off the side. Seemed strange because they seem like they would be perfectly accesable, but its like you can't get a good footing.

Irregardless of the mod it was designed for this map is top-notch, I give it a nine

This map looks great! :)

Other than choosing a couple bad spots in item placement imo, everything else is cool. But bad item placement is a matter of opinion by each player. It's the authors design, and if they want a RG in a certain spot then they should be able to put it where they want it. Bot play is ok, then again bots have their limitations. Having an artistic/architecture design talent is hard to have, and is a lifetime learning process. Figuring out the technical shit on what makes what run good/better, can be learned, and improved upon much faster than developing art talent.

Weibo, keep up what your doing. Looks great!

Thearrel "Kiltron" McKinney

great map :D

i just dont like people that are so quick to shoot down something that theyve never tried, or tried once.

please people , don't turn these comments into a yes/no fight. Yes, the bots suck we all know that. I'm not gonna defend the map here because that is not my policy, but i'd rather read comments (good and bad) about the map then a mod discussion.

Umm...the CPM team didnt just make the mod to overthrow vq3 and make CPM THE standard. They made it because, like lots and lots of people, they werent satisfied with q3's tame gameplay, and if it went mainstream, thats great but they wanted to make a mod that was fun and exciting, and that people antisapated playing whenever they got the chance, and to have it not be a chore like vq3 is. Sounds to me like you havent played it or given it a chance. Thats alright, maybe its too fast for you, maybe it takes too much quick thinking. vq3'ers shouldnt fear CPM, all we want is for people to give it a shot, play a few games, and if its too much for you, go back to vq3.

Uhhhhhh...I don't like it? A nasty surprise really.

First of all, I don't know if the layout would work better in CPM, but imh(umble)o that mod is BS. Not that I hate it's gameplay or whatever, more that it's gay for any one group of people to think they can make a mod and then make it the standard tourney competitive play mode. But now for the map =)

The RG, RA, and RL are all waaaaaaaaay out of the way. This forces people to use weaker guns until they can grab their choice of these two, and the bots don't use the better guns at all! The "best" gun I ever saw them walking around with was the freaking LG.

However, that doesn't mean they aren't a challenge..they "camp" the central spawning area so much that it's hard to get out and grab a good gun without being fragged. This, imho, sucks ass. It truly seems to be a grab-a-good-gun-and-you'll-own-for-ten-minutes-till-someone-finally-frags

-you map.

The look is good, and gameplay is o.k. , but nothing more here folks. I'm sure it'll hold up better in CPM, but, for me, CPM doesn't hold up in the first place.

Bottom line(s): I don't like CPM, therefore proly won't like CPM maps.

Having to run to get good guns and then come back into the main fragging area killed this map.

Cyas! Octovus

Some great architecture in this map... not (only) in the sense of "cool looking stuff", but in how the spaces are shaped and connect with each other. Lots of fun ways to get the drop on someone, and several interesting areas to defend.

As with most team DM or CTF maps, it's really hard to get a good feel for it with bots. This one is actually maybe a little worse than usual, as the bots seem to just want to party by the reciprocal teleporters, not even moving away to get items or quad.

But oh well. If this gets put into the CPM map pack, I hope that means that there's a good chance that HUMANS will actually play some games on this map, and I'm looking forward to that.

Man the detail on this map is freaking awesome. Boggles the mind.

Thanks Tig for the heads-up!

It's much better when it's bug free =]

i didn't have time to play in it yet.i just visited the place. i'll play in it tonight.

i forgot to say that the whole layout is quite complicated: it adds a labyrinth experience to it. really great.

there is always something special in wdw maps. despite the fact he always uses the q3 texture set, there is a very special atmosphere in all his work. probably because of the correct use of lights. you can feel that it's a wdw map. like a signature. i really like it.

also....ruins are often hard to make. wdw has "logical" ruins, with stone pieces that have fallen or collapsed logically at right and natural spots.

nice and original work.

Yeah, im pretty sure its gonna be in the CPM map pack.

Great map BTW!

Is this going to actually be a part of CPM or was it just designed with that mod in mind?

Great map, beautiful design, like we've come to expect from him...

Fixed - upadted to version 2 now

I forgot to mention that the new version fixes location-marker problems and that the RA can be jumped to in standard Q3 now as well. So no CPM needed to enjoy the map.

I would like to add quickly that the 1st version contained an error. I uploaded a new version onto my website. Grab it if you want and put it local here as well, Tig!