This map has a Red Flag in the slime pool room (below the room in screenshot) and a Blue Flag somewhere else. This map is not for CTF and attempting to play that was a huge joke. Deathmatch plays okay but it's nothing to write home about with all of the problems the map has. (stated in comments below)

I would also like to say how much I just love it when there are flamewars on crappy maps like this one! Just like the kind I saw on Firethrottle's maps.

The map score? 2/5

I haven't played the map yet, but after reading all the comments below and the review for this map, my only opinion is that the review should have been a little longer if this map was going to be posted up for download/feedback/etc. Right now, the site people Tigger and Mandog here have a very easy to follow guideline for reviews. This review; I don't think meets their guidelines, so I'm not sure why it was put up. There are quite a few map reviews I've sent to Tigger in which I said "don't put this map up for download it's too [insert bad reason] to be released yet". That was just to be fair to the map author to avoid comment flame wars and so I didn't have to right a harsh review that only seems like I'm attacking the map author.

The only thing this map needs is maybe a more detailed review and let everyone else rate/comment/feedback about the map so the author can gain experience points from the whole process. If you read all the reviews I've left for other maps here, you'll see that I try not to focus so much of the "map sucks" part and start off with the good points. Then I try to follow it up with "what could be done to make it better" and so far that seems to get a lot more positive feedback, especially from the map authors who comment on their own maps.

There's many map reviews all over the site that get some good arguments going........it's mostly humorous when the review is right and people disagree with how truthful it is. Or when a mapper changes their name 500 time or does the noname/not entered? These days I would think that a mapper should download at least a hundred good maps here, and consider whether or not their map is going to get a good review!

That was a nice...
Reading such a flame-war from the past...
HELP i'm on fire!

Did you read the review? I'm pretty sure you could drop this map and use a different one

IT CRACHES MY Q3(EXCESSIVEPLUS) SERVER ! BY FOLOWING:
ERROR: SPAWNENTITIES : NO ENTITIES (AFTER THIS IT GOES AUTODOWN)
SERVER SHUTDOWN.

Pyro. Doing something different in your maps is all very well as long as it actually works!

As for the map its self, it reminded me of the Xen factories at the end of Half-Life. I found this map fun the 1st couple of times round, but the garish textures and the general weirdness started making me feel sick. Only worth the download if you liked the 'Borg' TC for quake1.

(in my opinion)

After reading all these coments I went ahead and downloaded this map against my better judgement. First I don't think it's a BAD map but it's not good enough to stay on the ol' hard drive. The game play just isn't very smooth. It seems as if the author had a bunch of good ideas he just had to use and used them even though they didn't all fit together or were good where he used them. The whole throbbing colon room just seemed a little disjointed. Some more clipping could have been used around some of the knee hieght lights.

Now after having said that. I don't think this author has been around to long (has he?) and I do give him high credit for actually having finished a map. It is alot harder then some of you may think, especially when starting out. I would say to keep an eye out on this guys FUTURE maps. Because although this may not have been "the" map for this guy, he does seem to have potential and the patience to keep at it. More concentration on a smoother flow and then throwing in the eye candy may be more of what this guy needs.

ok... first of all every minute you guys spend attacking each other and posting some rather dumb comments is one less minute you guys have to actually play the maps you are arguing over. After all, isn't that what it's all about? I sure as hell think so. Sure, when I download a map, I expect it to look decent(not spectacular), to have a good layout, and to play well. However, I am not one to bitch about all of the small details that some of you(including the reviewer) are, especially at this stage of Q3 mapmaking. I can appreciate all of the bullshit mapmakers have to go through with the imperfections of Q3Radiant because I helped my best friend make a map. Let me tell you... It's not easy. I give a HELL YEAH to all mapmakers for even having the balls to sit down with a new program and to construct these maps. I myself don't have a lot of custom maps on my computer because I am very content with just playing the ID maps. For all of you guys that are seeking perfection, no custom map will ever come as close as an ID map, never. I challenge each and every one of you to find a better map. If you do find one, I'd like to know what it is so I can go put it on my computer. I'm not saying the ID maps are perfect, but they are damn close. All I see a custom map as is a unique(for the most part) battle situation that offers a change in scenery with a certain tactical element that makes or breaks the map. The fun factor is definitely the largest factor as to whether the map stays on my computer or gets deleted, and I think that a true gamer would agree with me. So instead of looking at texture placement and little stuff like that, just get the map, if it is good to you, keep it, if it isn't, get rid of it. That would be a lot faster than bitching at each other about it, and you would actually have more time to actually play the damn game instead of reading stuff like this. If you would rather bitch about it, then by all means, continue to do so, but I've wasted my time on here long enough so I'm going to go play a game and leave you guys to argue over whatever.

ummm... er... eh... yeah... heh...

Hehe... I get it...

Pyro is just a total tit :)

To my psychiatrist, man I have never heard any of those comments before when someone disses another person. Really original and creative. You sound like a foreigner also. As far as sounding like a shack board person yea Im on there also and we at that board are the biggest customers of ID's stuff so you know shit. Why dont you just stfu and take it up the ass from the mappers who asses you smootch so good:)

Pyro=fire=flame=bait-dont you get it yet?

SgtGhost - I think you'll find that any of the serious mappers will help you, if you just ask mate.

Dru
www.quakeheads.com
www.jesterinteractive.com

Well at least someone is trying to help!

Thx Dru, i will e-mail you!

SgtGhost - If u want my opinion, just e-mail me (druel@quakeheads.com). When I started I pestered a couple of mappers who were set up at the time, like Mr CleaN, and got them to d/l my map and tell me how bad it was and how to improve it.

Take care buddy,

Dru
www.quakeheads.com
www.jesterinteractive.com

Dru:
How are you suppose to know what you are doing is good , bad or has pontential?

Shredder:
Ive ask simple questions to Fingers. so if you're goal in life is to flame people , maybe you should go to some special nursery section. cuz you're the one who needs it.

Damn you can even make the difference between questions and or flaming someone!

Get a life Bro!!

Later!!
Sarge

Tigger, I apologise for the recent outburst by one of our staff. He has been treating Pyro for severe dementia for many years now, and tends to get upset when his patient is released to harm others in public. I can confirm that his comments were entirely justified, and hopefully Pyro will be recaptured and sedated soon, but again I apologise for corrupting this site with such matters.

Come on Pyro, time for your boinky boinky pills.

God you are the biggest twat I've seen on a message board outside of sCary's forums. When will you grow the fuck up and realise that the whole point of the map <--> releasing <--> reviewing situation is MAP QUALITY. It doesn't matter whether the mapper is a beginner, whether the game is new, whether the map is something really original, quality is all that counts. If you are so fucking moronic that you can't see that, there is no way you should be posting here. You keep on slagging off people who are talking perfect sense (Shredder, for example), but all you have demonstrated is that 1. You are not prepared to listen to people who know far more about map quality than a ex-lobotomy patient than you ever will, and 2. You are so fucking clueless about map quality that you'd rate a fullbright box 10/10. If you ever evolve to the stage of walking upright and being able to comment accurately on a map's quality, feel free to post some comments, otherwise, you can just fuck off right now, because all you are doing is showing how much of a twat you are - are you proud of that, dickbrain??

Shredder stfu

This site is not a stroking room for wannabe map makers i don't really care if its your first map i'm interested in how well it plays -

good gameflow, well thought out weapon placement, low framerate, consistent feel, interesting architecture - its all got to come together - this is what you've got to learn to work with- i'm not going to go see a movie because the people who made it tried really hard and i'm not going to download a map because someone has commented "its not that bad for a beginning".

If its not ready to be reviewed don't put it up for review. Or do you think there should be a special nursery section, SgtGhost?

Basicly, if you want to make stuff that just looks good or interesting go hang out in 3d-cafe

If you want people to tell you your great, get some friends

If you want people to think your map rocks build a great map - think about it, test it, play it with your imaginary friends, throw it away start all over again, find out how to get your frame rate down, get rid of stuff thats only in there because you think its funky but its really pulling the game down, don't worry you can use it or what you've learnt somewhere else - cmon ya gotta work it baby if you wanna be goooooood.

I havent played the map so I won't comment on that. =] Q3 level making is still in its infancy. Mappers will have to get used to the new engine and gameplay. I decided not to release a map until I have something good, which is beta-tested and optimised. I think most Q3 levels that are released now are rushed, not well thought out and tested, released to get there first on the review sites. This is not good practice, IMHO. Just wait, the best is yet to come, and fussing over what map is better or who's opinion sucks is just plain studpid. Enjoy the map you downloaded or delete it. This site (and others) are here to inform you about a level so you can decide to dl it or not. Great service, I love it but don't blaim the messager!

--Wiebo

You Guys Rival tooooooo much.......Quake was a gift from a higher power,enjoy it!As far as comments some of you guys can be harsh!Making maps can be very hard and time consuming!If you don't like a map--you could comment,but don't make the mapper feel like he wasted his time and is the worst map maker of all!...In closing,most mappers that claim their maps are masterpieces,and sh*t on other mappers,well....their maps aren't all that great and have alot of bugs and inconsistancies in them...so shoooshhhhhhhh!:>@

Pyro: Not true. Check out maps like "A2 - Return to Atlantis" by Pingu to see that what you're saying is wrong. The layout is way more open then maps by ztn or Headshot. That's not the only one like that, just a good example. If you're going to say I'm wrong, get your facts straight.

SgtGhost: I made about 4 maps before "The Fragile" which I never released, starting with my "how-do-I-use-Qer" crappy map, and ranging through to one where I'd learnt a lot more. Everytime you make a map you learn a new trick. Don't release your first few maps, just use them as a learning experience.

Thanks,

Dru
www.quakeheads.com
www.jesterinteractive.com

Interesting stuff in here!!

Fingers:
So what you are saying is boxes are not counted has levels. So those that mean boxes cant or never will have good gameplay or should I say fun to play in. Those that mean a box map can’t have a good review in a sense of good to play in!

What about maps like ex: Q3tourney3 and Q3 tourney5, it seems to me that those maps are boxes. Sure they are well design, but still remain boxes, those that mean they are bad maps cuz they are boxes or not counted has a good levels.

Im new to mapping and I didn’t have a clue how to work with q3radiant. I didn’t want to start off with a big project and end up leaving it there. So I started with something small, but, those that makes me a bad mapper, how does one become better if the map reviewer doesn’t even take the time to check out if the map is fun. Can you explain that to me?

Is it so hard to say “its not that bad for a beginning”

And why don’t you elaborate on the words “Good Level”, what makes a good level, you seem to have a lot of experience in mapping. What is the best tip you can give to a newbie? Would you tell him “Start big” or “Start with something small and learn from what you did”?

Later!!
Sarge

No fingers I mean the basic layout and pathways. Its all pretty much the same except for a turn here or there. Im not into the conversions at all. I was saying you guys should be pushing the envelope. ID has a new style map, space, thats different maybe not better but different. theres gotta be a new style to pursue other than vanilla.

Except for Ztn of course (just kidding ;)

Lol Pyro... What are all these "new" maps coming out but rehashing of Q3 or Q2 or Q1 levels? Just look at most of the ones seen on this site... Q1 map remakes, Q2 map remakes, Q3 map remakes... And then boxes that hardly count as levels. Rehashing is most common among the "new" level authors, not the "old" ones, because it's one of the best ways to learn things.

Dru I never realized how witty you are. I never called anyone a has been. I stated fact old mappers meaning they have mapped a long time. If you cant admit that these mappers design all of their maps in the same fashion then you are ignorant to the facts. new maps with new ideas on old ideas. Sounds like a microsoft trait. Seriously the "OLD" mappers should be pushing the envelope not sit comforatably rehashing old ideas. Tell me Im wrong again.

Fingers - Pyro's making his own 4-level tier with custom textures, amazing designs and custom sounds of him saying "beep" into his microphone.

You think he needs the help of a "has been" old mapper who keeps churning out "the same old shit" that everyone loves? Get real... ;)

Pyro - It'd be interesting to see the differences in time Fingers put in his map and some other authors put in theirs.

Dru
www.quakeheads.com
www.jesterinteractive.com

Listen, fellow... I didn't say that my own early experiments/abominations on Q3 mapping are any better. And I'm not asking people to kiss my ass, they do that perfectly on their own if they do. If you look at some of the higher quality review sites like the Big House or Inspection, they give plenty of criticism to my maps anyway. And despite of being the arrogant fuck I am, I don't even hype my levels on my own website like some of these "unknown" authors ;p

And I'm not "putting down unknown mappers" when I bitch about the state of Q3 mapping so far; none of the better known ones have come up with anything too exciting either. Arrogant or not, I believe I'd recognize a good level when I see one.

If you want something constructive, or need help building a level, pop in on EFnet #level_design; I give advice to anyone who asks if I have time...

I looked at the other reviews and I just had to post something I feel is obvious. Why not rename this site. Ill shit on your map for all to see:) Here are snippets from the front page about each map.

Claustrophobias-A great conversion, but don't expect the same gameplay as the original - almost an endorsment by his standards

Bedlam-The few problems I had with Bedlam were with the thin looking walls (they just don't seem quite right)- its called doing something different maybe?

The Bad Place-Nice to see a remake dm4, but could have been constructed better - I love you I hate you.

2fort9ctf-I have never really liked 2fort maps, but I guess others might. You dont like anything but maps from old mappers.

Organicfusion-Not a great map
positivity at its best:)

Wicked-Interestingly, I don't think there is a single curve in the map.- Well damn lets burn it!

Golneys DM3-Found it boring after a short time.

Well maybe you should play it more.

The Railing Box-A box with railguns- So eloquently articulated.

This is a pattern of shitting.

Heres the fudge brownie map-The gameplay is smooth, the frags are many - well worth the download.

Can you smell the kiss ass?

Shambler,Fingers what makes you guys such an expert on what other people think of maps? You can always state your opinion but generalations like "I have yet to see ONE decent Q3 map." Is that not arogant as hell or what? Just because you make some maps people like you have to shit on others who havent been at it as long? Who here said this map was the greatest ever? I think its a well done map and it's different. It's not the same old rehashed fingers,headshot crap that is repeated in every release of theirs. I would think the mapping community would embrace someone trying something new and different instead of becoming an ID copycat like I see so many of. This map isnt a 10 but I think its a 7. I have played this on a couple servers and it is fun and plays well. The people playing it also seem to enjoy it. I think some of the well known mappers posting here are a little to synical and pompous but it begs the question...why? You are no better than anyone else and your maps might be tuned a little more but like I said before you recreate every map over and over. Try something new and that doesnt mean texturing a map like a subway. Give other mappers something constructive not egocentric bullshit. I have seen quite a few good maps here that get shit on. If you run a site like this you should understand that some people will take what you say and say screw this map or that map. You can state opinions but to constantly talk shit about other peoples work with no point or purpose is crap. He mentioned about one map the following.."It doesnt even have any curves." Who cares does it play well, are the r_speeds good?Hows the texturing, Is the lighting realistic? Concentrate on some positives every once in a while. The other thing that is annoying is rating all the old mappers so high all the time. Get off their dicks and dont rate because of name, rate because of the map. I for one cannot believe that fudge map is rated so high. It is bland, the same ole thing we have seen over and over, and boring. Now saying this will probably piss someone off but who cares, this site says this about all unknown mappers all the time. Its time for someone to say it about the OLD mappers. Unbiased sites would be nice but it wont happen. The old mapping community is full of people trying to befriend old mappers because they made a good level once instead of judging their maps for what they are, rehashed. Yes some are very nice but myself and friends of mine dont like playing the same map with different textures over and over. We want something new, something from new mappers. Flame on.....

"Well, I'm personally yet to see ONE really good level for Q3."

Yeah, not even that piece of Ikdm3 crap!! Lol =)

"I can't understand why people go "The best map made for any game, ever!" whenever somebody slaps together a couple of rooms and put a pulsating colon in the middle."

Mmmm, pulsating colon....where? Where?!?

"I wonder what kind of ratings these guys will give to the maps when they actually get kind of good, if "A" has already been given to these early experiments/abominations."

Exactly Fingers, nail right on the head and all that. That's why ratings suck, as the benchmarks for quality change over time - UNLESS people are prepared to accurately judge the first generation of levels, which leads onto the next problem: People are far too lenient on the new Q3A levels just because they are new Q3A levels....and as you say, they'll be fuxx0red when some really good levels come out and their rating system / judgement system goes to wank. Then again, if they are foolish enough to consider the average current levels high quality, they probably won't no the difference when some really great levels come out =(.

Beh.. post below is from me. :P

Obviously this comment system is both a blessing and a curse.

On one hand, we can comment on the maps and possibly give the authors a little more feedback.

On the other hand, we have a handful of clueless dickheads that whinge constantly about the site.

"sorry to say this"

Yes, we are too. We're even sorrier you haven't learnt the basics of typing, capital letters and punctuation yet.

"u dont know how to give a rate on a map"

When Tigger actually gives a rating on a map (look at the main page - no ratings, fool), then you might have a point to make.

"i have played this map and its great"

Does that mean it's a great map, or does it mean you have no clue about map quality??

"70 maps on it and have still 90 to go on my HD so u see i have test lots of them eand organicfusion is one of the best i have seen"

So you've played a lot of maps, so what?? Does that mean you know about map quality?? Being able to accurately analyse map quality is an art, a talent - some people have it, and some people cough don't.

"tell u get lost and rate maps for the people and not for your own taste"

Firstly, if you don't like this site, perhaps you should get lost. Tigger isn't forcing you to come hear and bl33t on about ratings (and unfortunately he isn't forcing you to stay away either). Secondly, Tigger don't rate the damn maps - YOU rate the damn maps. Look just below Tigger's level summary, and you'll see a score box - look there it is, go rate it.

Maybe YOU should get a clue what this site is actually about, and stop trying to abuse people who are performing a service FOR YOU.

Well, I'm personally yet to see ONE really good level for Q3. I can't understand why people go "The best map made for any game, ever!" whenever somebody slaps together a couple of rooms and put a pulsating colon in the middle. No texture alignment, no taste, and a boatload of bugs seem to make an excellent map these days.

I wonder what kind of ratings these guys will give to the maps when they actually get kind of good, if "A" has already been given to these early experiments/abominations.

Well I can see there are mixed opinions here.

My view is as follows:

There has obviously been alot of though ut into the implementation of the map but I can really say it plays too well. All of you have very valid points and I'm not saying any of you are wrong but I totally agree with Tigger: This map isn't up there with the likes of IK3DM1 which is one of the better Q3a maps, it's more in the middle. An average map and nothing more, of course the full review will be up on my page soon.

Keep the good work up Tigger and ignore some of the less greatfull people.

-GibFest

Great 1 on 1

I didn't enjoy this map at all because the bots don't have the common sense to get out of the basement (with the big green goo pool)--i.e. I noticed that if they spawned in that area, they're practically trapped there forever, unless I go down there and frag their AI behind.

I'm just a casual gamer who enjoys playing Q3A at Bring It On & Hurt Me Plenty difficulty settings. I would really appreciate if bots in future maps would exercise a little bit more intellect without me turning up the difficulty setting to Hardcore--which at that time would have taken the fun out it.

With regards to the level design, I honestly think it's ok although I'm really not that picky on that aspect. Thank you for sharing your map.

yes thats my gamersname aka NNY

sorry to say this

what u did say about this map organicfusion is alot off crap

u dont know how to give a rate on a map u have to rate it not for yourself but for everybody i have played this map and its great i have a site of my own whit more then 70 maps on it and have still 90 to go on my HD so u see i have test lots of them eand organicfusion is one of the best i have seen

thats why i post this and tell u get lost and rate maps for the people and not for your own taste

no greetz NNY

great post:) kiss more ass

Beh.. post below is from me. :P

Obviously this comment system is both a blessing and a curse.

On one hand, we can comment on the maps and possibly give the authors a little more feedback.

On the other hand, we have a handful of clueless dickheads that whinge constantly about the site.

Pyro, you can do better of course. Please direct us toward YOUR review site? What's that, you're content to abuse the site and its maintainer for doing what you percieve to be a poor job (simply because of a difference of opinion), and yet you're too fucking lazy to have a go yourself? Yeah - typical.

"...I have seen 3 sites give it great marks" - well that's 3 sites not doing their job properly, eh? I haven't downloaded the map (I couldn't, bloody fileplanet buggery) so I can't personally comment on the gameplay, but I do trust Tigger's judgement.

In any case, I think you've missed the point - this is not really a traditional review site. Tigger offers some brief comments, but all he is doing is expressing his opinion (that's all a review is anyway of course, 'cept generally a tad longer) and telling you a little about the map - in most cases, enough to tell you whether to bother downloading it or not (in conjunction with the screenshot). The main point of the site is to present the levels to you, let YOU decide what you think of them, and then post your comments here. So instead of sooking about the site, tell us what you think of the map.

By the way, your opinion is just that - an opinion. It is not fact. You would do well to remember that.

"I think you need to play more maps and get a better feel for all the maps you play." - why bother playing rubbish maps? I'm sure Tig plays and enjoys the quality stuff though. In any case I find most of his views to be quite accurate.

"I have played your map and the texturing is horrible." - clutching at straws now, aren't you. :)

"How many good marks out of all these maps reviewed today?" - how many marks? There is no marks, dude. I don't see any ratings on the main page. If you mean "how many favourable comments today", well, allow me to ask "how many quality levels today"? Since the answer to the second question is "none", the answer to the first follows logically enough.

"Maybe you should start taking your time and get a clue:)" Tigger spends a lot of time as it is, finding levels and presenting them to us. If he were to write comprehensive reviews, we'd see a lot less levels. Tigger is offering you the chance to easily find and download something you might want to play (even if he personally doesn't like it) - rather than filtering out what he sees as the crap levels. As we've seen here, you enjoyed this map, he didn't - yet he still provided it here for you to download and comment upon.

Maybe YOU should get a clue what this site is actually about, and stop trying to abuse people who are performing a service FOR YOU.

Instead of me reviewing your map I think what you just said applies to it. And yes I thoroughly enjoyed it!! Look at quake3mods.com they did too.

Pyro - If you honestly enjoy this map; say so, I didn't - its as simple as that. the gameplay was as annoying as all hell, not to mention boring after 5 minutes. Texturing was all over the place as far aesthetics, and then there was the architecture.....

If you want to comment on my map, leave a post there - it would make more sense than on some other level

Do you ever play a map for more than 1 minute? This map is badass and I have seen 3 sites give it great marks. I think you need to play more maps and get a better feel for all the maps you play. I have played your map and the texturing is horrible. How many good marks out of all these maps reviewed today? Barely any. I know now that your reviews are the crappiest I have seen. Well I guess since you have one small paragraph for each map that proves it. Maybe you should start taking your time and get a clue:)