I Agee with HelterSkeleton the intention of making a huge mag is ok and thumbs up for that still the execution is a bit so so. The task is huge but that is what the mapper signed up for. The actual playability stays on the novelty side here. I don't play this map for a fun game of ctf. Therefor it lacks too much in gameplay department. I don't load this map either for the novelty side it is just too flat, too much the same all over. So the idea is good, there is a lot of work gone into the map but it doesn't make the cut.

kinda agree with Raspatan about the teleports: especially since there are so many buildings on the map that serve no other purpose than to provide cover and decoration opening some up for teleporters to the top of the map would have been great. Since nobody has bothered to comment on TA gameplay I thought I might address that. It seems TA was something of an afterthought and not very well-thought out at that. CTF is supported, as well as one flag and harvester but there is no support for overload. I thought at first this might have been intentional, given the size and structure of the bases, I myself had wondered as to whether overload would be a suitable game type for this type of level. But with Quad, BFG, ammo regen, doubler, kamikaze and invulnerability there are many strategies that can be used to take the opposing base. Oneflag was also problematic: for a start it has two flags, so not really a one flag set-up, but the centralisation of flags still maintains the intent of the game type and adds a new element. What was bothersome though is they are sat right on the BFG and Quad respectively. I really hate it when level designers just dump the TA entities on top of (or next to) an existing item/power-up. Either way, at least the bots respond to commands. Worst of all was harvester. Not only is the harvester dumped next to the quad : ( but bots are completely disobedient. And will camp the harvester once they get their with the harvested skulls. Even though the level is "inspired" by an existing UT map, still marks off for originality. I'm also marking down because TA wasn't well thought out. For anyone passing through, maybe questioning my scores: I'm not just scoring a map based on the size of it and the textures the author used. I'm giving this a 3. Obviously great for a larger player load in ordinary CTF, but its other elements were a bit of a let down.

Never played the original UT version but for Q3, this lacks connectivity. The base with the flag is very hard to enter, plus camping is too easy. Some teleports could have improve things.

this map looks almost....UNREAL

Flag to flag is about 20000 units in a straight line, making it the largest Quake3 map I've seen thus far. The grass texture is really stretched out though, making it seem like you're crawling instead of walking.

Awesome map. It's very big, the environment is excellent, the skybox matches the layout of the map, and the textures were pretty good. Quite fun to play on Threewave or Excessive Plus. Bot support is excellent, and is good to play with 12 or more players, depending on how much grunt your machine has. 9/10.

Perfecto lo descargare xD!

OK I just Played it. Not what I was picturing when I saw the screen shot. This map is huge! Kind of like back in medieval times and then some. With two bases miles apart, divided by a mountain wall, the red & blue bases including their cities (which bots don't defend or pay any attention to at all) Which are in between the Three land bridges to get to the mines. Bots notoriously Go for that BFG in the VERY center of the map; the bridge of the caves. Also great job with the backround. Instead of only a skybox- real water and mountains to go in front! WHen i was using godmode to take a swim, I immediatley found out you constantly take damage because of the hissing sound when I took a dip. Overall, Exellent map! Oh Castle, What's next on the Agenda????!!!! :D

Map looks good. I think I will Download it.

looks nice but, it isn't ideal conversion map from ut ;)

I would say its the largest. Larger than kineterra1 of course.

I like it because I like huge maps.....is this the largest on lvl?

ME LIKES!! ;)

Really an interesting map. I give Castle his due. It's massive. It's huge...it's something different!

First off on the credit point. Spielberg was inspired in Close Encounters by Pinocio but I don't feel he need to have a huge credit for Walt Disney in the film. Everyone is inspired by someone or something somewhere. Folks complaining about this map on that point are simply trying to steal credit away from Castle and his hard work.

Now for the map, it's huge as I said...but it works. I would really love to play this map with 20 people. It's a map where teamwork is really required I think. This is not a cookie cutter gothic map like 90% of the stuff we see. This is creative, different and life like. How many different gothic castles can one play in before they all look the same? I suggest people download this map and I hope a few good servers pop up playing it. It's worth the download.

No need to act like a mo castle ;)

Blue base does kind off look like the lg one :p

sigh, again, the level looks good. You're a talented mapper.

Oh well fair enough I will be updating the readme file with the level asap.

but im not joking about the maps being drasticaly different. even the red base doesnt look like the red base in lava giant.

I dont feel the levels are really all that similar. Keep in mind I have had my face stuck in the .map for a long time. much longer than I have ever played the level for sure.

one thing im gonna pat myself on the back for is nailing the lava giant style enough that even level that looks runs and plays so differently some how has people convinced its a direct port or a "convertion"

Like I said though I only give credit to people who helped out with game content.. I know about 15 + beta testers who helped me out with this level.

Oh hell while im at it I should list all the people who gave feedback. Oh and the people who might have said something to inspire me to come up with an idea.

Not to mention other levels other than lava giant.

hehe

and you can fit watergiant two times in sunspire castle ;)

Damn it I'm not used to this place anymore :)

Another shot:

<a href="nalicity.beyondunreal.com/" target="_blank">nalicity.beyondunreal.com/</a>

Post a link to a ut site on a q3 site ;)?

Castle, I tend to disagree here when you say that the only resemble between "lavagiant" and "watergiant" is the red base. You must be joking :)

you're not?

Ehm no giving credit to the author of the lavagiant map doesn't seem to be irrelevant here. To me, as an ut and Q3 player, I think that's of the utmost important.

Had you named your map "the sea of silence" or anything else, and "tweaked" the design more so it wouldn't resemble that much of lg, there wouldn't have been a single problem imho :)

Ah well. Look Castle, honestly, you've made a great looking map. Next time you're inspired by a retail ut level, ... credits ;)

Oh yeah tetzlaff, Falkenstein can be found here:

[url]<a href="nalicity.beyondunreal.com/[/url]" target="_blank">nalicity.beyondunreal.com/[/url]</a>

Simply search the dm section ;)

There seems to be a great deal of back and forth about citation of sources inspiration and credits. It seems pretty irrelevant to a discussion of this map. I was hoping to see comments from people who have played it.

I have played the map, and see some potential for some really fun gameplay that is different from the typical quake experience. The map is vast, and as a result I imagine it would really force players to coordinate their team play to get anything accomplished. For sure, it would require a different pace, and strategy than the norm. I didn’t think anything was particularly ugly, (and I am speaking from the perspective of a professional graphic designer) but I would have like to have seen more features in some of the buildings. I would love to see someone host a public server (I have no concept of the technical feasibility of this - but I would definitely put it my favorites list). Also, a flight power up might be a cool addition.

There seems to be a great deal of back and forth about citation of sources inspiration and credits. It seems pretty irrelevant to a discussion of this map. I was hoping to see comments from people who have played it.

I have played the map, and see some potential for some really fun gameplay that is different from the typical quake experience. The map is vast, and as a result I imagine it would really force players to coordinate their team play to get anything accomplished. For sure, it would require a different pace, and strategy than the norm. I didn’t think anything was particularly ugly, (and I am speaking from the perspective of a professional graphic designer) but I would have like to have seen more features in some of the buildings. I would love to see someone host a public server (I have no concept of the technical feasibility of this - but I would definitely put it my favorites list). Also, a flight power up might be a cool addition.

Hey it´s no shame to create a level that is inspired by another level. It doesn´t mean that it´s not original or just a copy or something... I mean, the Renaissance architecture is inspired by antique Roman architecture, just to mention a very obvious example from Art History.

For the people who never played UT and Lava Giant, I think it´s interesting to know that there´s a level that inspired the layout of this level, and worthy to mention in the readme.

Nitebeat: Falkenstein? An UT level? Can you post a link please?

Oh and one last point about how I give credit in my readme txt files... Over time I started only giving credit to people who helped me in a direct manner by either giving me game content or something that was needed to release the level.

Otherwise I would have 50 people listed for every level I ever made... so in the past I never really gave credit unless there was a real tangable influence like textures sounds models or code. Is inspiration really grounds for credit?

You can also fit Lava Giant a few times in this level I think.

Thats kind of what was intended. Otherwise this completly new map would just be clumped with Lava Giant and everyone would say "oh its just a direct port." Like people have been saying.. Think of the name as an easter egg. Its an all new level with a sort touch of lava giant to it... Or at least thats what was intended.. perhaps it didnt pan out quite like I thought. But I dont want anyone thinking I Copied Lava Giant level geometry or ported it to quake 3. Its an all new map plain and simple.

ill rethink the readme txt..

Oh and whoops

I meant mpterra 2 distant screams not mp terra 3...

You can fit the largest terrian map many times over inside of this level.

Is mpterra3 is the smallest terrain map, right? Otherwise I'm scared (I know Frozen Screams or whatever is mpterra2). But you're kind of contradicting yourself, Castle. If you say the name is enough to point out the "inspiration" (and evidently you thought Lava Giant deserved something of a nod by your choice of name), you're forgetting people who haven't played or even heard of the original! I would never have known about the "original" if vastly different Lava Giant if I hadn't read this thread...because I'd never heard about it before. Anyways.

-Octovus

"The many extras, the change of

environment isn't all that bad and yeah the map is big. If this

is the biggest q3 map around, then I got bad news for you ;)"

It is the first level to make use of variable block sizes. Its the largest map because before q3map allowed for that option a level of this size could never happen. you can fit multiple mp terra 3 maps inside of this level. go take a look the .map is in the pk3

Maybe a new map came out after i released this one but this one was the largest at the time. =P

I spoke with the guy who designed Lava Giant and he might have hinted that this map might inspire his remake of lava giant for Unreal 2.

hmm it doesnt say that this level was inspired by Lava Giant in the readme?

Maybe because it doesnt mater really. After all the level is called "Water Giant" It doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out what inspired the level.

Keep in mind that inspireation and a direct port are entirely different things and this level is Drasticaly different from Lava Giant in just about every technical sense. I might go and update the .txt when I finaly get back to working on my web site this month. (I think that I didnt mention lava giant simply because I dont have to. The name alone should show what inspired the level. I believe that Water Giant is my level and is anything but a direct port or a remake for quake 3. Its an all new level that was inspired by another level like just about every other quake 3 map with Gothic architecture. hehe)

I also might have not mentioned it in the readme to avoid people yapping at me because im going to get sued by Epic... Im sure I had my reasons at the time I released the level.

Go ahead and compare the levels.. the only thing I think I got kind of close was the red base.. This map has about as much in commen with Lava Giant as every other vinella quake 3 map has in commen with each other. And if your going to compare game play then we might as well just say this levels inspireation came from thin air. I dont Want this map to be seen as a Lava Giant port because its simply NOT.

I would say the review of the map is pretty fair considering the levels Novelty value

It can be fun at a good lan party sometimes though. It was odd getting the bots to run around the level..

thanks

Hell right no sign of it his read me!! what the hell?

Ok, I did give the map a try.

It looks nice to be honest. The many extras, the change of environment isn't all that bad and yeah the map is big. If this is the biggest q3 map around, then I got bad news for you ;)

Anyway, liked the trees you added, the houses below (although I couldn't find many goodies down there, except in the caves).

The bases.. sorry they look ugly. Really ugly. Why did you texture them this way? Real shame

The skybox works really good and I can see castle has put a lot of work into this "conversion".

But again, why didn't he mention lavagiant in his readme???????????????????????????????????????????????????!!!

Didn't mention he got his inspiration from indeed heh one of the most famous ut ctf maps? Boy, was he on dope or so?

I'll have to be honest here, lavagiant beats this one. And no I'm not biased; I like both Q3 and Ut.

Tetzlaff obvioulsy never saw screenshots from Falkenstein...

Castle was very up front at the time he was making this map about the Lava Giant inspiration--I'm surprised that he didn't mention it in the readme. (?)

Yes, this is inspired by Lava Giant from UT. It´s the most famous UT CTF map beside Facing Worlds, I guess. It was set in a lava sea and the midfield was much simpler. Castle´s remake proves again that Quake3 can create so much more detailed and beatiful maps than UT :)

MESTAH FOWLAH: Really? Could you tell me the name of the original level and author (if you know).

This is a UT remake and the orginal author should have some credit.