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I agree wit the Hubster on this comment #11 That is also the scary and fun part of mapping. Not knowing who will beta test and what will come up. I did this with a few of my maps and it made me and the maps better. Still it is an investment on both sides. Eventually the player will benefit. In hindsight I should have done this on more maps of mine.
This map is too wide and the walkways are too long for me. But it is build very nicely.
Victimized by Kit Carson is much more to my liking.
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Are friends gothic?Indeed, we are!
Awesome classic map. Even more cthulhuesque than gothic.
The author accomplished a very distinctive look using only plain gothic textures.
Love the atmosphere and the scale, there's an adventure vibe that reminds me Quake and Quake 2 old good maps, before Quake turned into a "sport".
Ten+ years later and kitdm10 is still shining in my main map rotation!
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Are friends Gothic?Eurynomous's friends maybe ;)
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The Hubster
unregistered
#11 10 Dec 2001
I don't think luck has much to do with it. Careful planning, as much feedback from testers as possible (I posted at several forums for testing, and got lots of feedback) is what it's about.
Using friends to betatest is also not good - they won't give you an honest opinion, because of the bias of friendship. Using people you dont know well works great: complete honesty and bluntness gives you a "no BS" approach to feedback. Works like a charm.
This map is far too large for duelling. The scale is massive, and gameplay is nothing but long rail fests with zoom on permantly.
But I will say this: Kit has one of the highest skill levels with Radiant, or so it would seem. Each release he builds some amazing things, whether they're new or not.
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Octovus
unregistered
#10 10 Dec 2001
Well, whatever I thought of this map, you're definitely still among my favorite mappers. I mean you've done tons of cool and, in my opinion, better designed maps. It's nice to hear you'll have a fuller Beta Test next time. I should have Wolfenstein for Christmas (I hope!!), maybe I can help :-)
And your last paragraph is quite true, but for the true greats there's not toooo much luck involved, I don't think.
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KitCarson
unregistered
#9 10 Dec 2001
usually i use "private" betatester, me and my friends are all good quakers and we meet often in lan parties where i have chances to test the maps, anyway:) my next map(wolfenstein) will have public betatest,
about kitdm10, the map is of course FFA but is thinked(i'm not kidding:) for tourney and Team, in tourney u must have a good strategy to dominate the map and with few strafe jumps u can go everywhere.
anyway it's not easy for a map reach the glory! i could build an excellent visual map, i could put weapons and ammo in the right places and build the perfect way to reach them....at least i did the 50% of the map, the 50% remaining is lucky!
thanx
Kit
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Octovus
unregistered
#8 10 Dec 2001
It would seem so. Obviously he's got great knowledge of the editor.
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hannibal
unregistered
#7 09 Dec 2001
I've always wondered what kind of beta testing process Kit uses for his maps. I've never seen him post at Q3map, Challenge Network, Q3W, Burial-Grounds,etc. about open or semi-private betas. Does he play much Q3? Do the beta testers he does use (if he does)play much?I bet the play quality of his maps would skyrocket if he got some serious playtesting done from experienced players.
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The Hubster
unregistered
#6 09 Dec 2001
Unfortunately, I have to agree with hannibal.
Kit's maps are always mindblowing in terms of visual quality, but there's always a lack in the gameplay department.
Sorry, not trying to be mean or anything, Kit, but gameplay is always top notch imho, no matter how ugly a map is (eg q3jdm9 is damn ugly, but the gameplay is incredible. It's one map that would be a sore loss on my hdd).
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Octovus
unregistered
#5 08 Dec 2001
Well, hannibal, when I read your comment I found it very odd. I still do, as I've enjoyed most of Kit's past maps (he's among my authors to watch for) but unfortunately I have to agree at least on this map. It seems faithful enought to q3test's looks, to be sure, but the gameplay falls quite flat. The map quickly becomes a spamfest, especially with bots, and it's a shame to see the beautiful areas near the LG and RA go deserted.
It might perform better in TDM, but it strikes me that most areas would be too easy to defend then. Quite bland gameplay. But as for the author, my hopes are still high; here's hoping I enjoy your next release more, and to everyone enjoying this, all the more power to ya.
-Octovus
P.S. 6 from me.
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hannibal
unregistered
#4 08 Dec 2001
Well, I've never kept any of Kit's maps for more than about 10 minutes and this one is no different: interesting to good visuals, minimal to no gameplay attraction.
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immortal
unregistered
#3 08 Dec 2001
great map , I love it :)
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neg!ke
unregistered
#2 08 Dec 2001
it looks great, this is what i would call a solid gothic map. because of the size it's rather suited for larger ffa/team games or clan arena, imo.
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Tetzlaff
unregistered
#1 08 Dec 2001
This map recreates the dark and demonic feel of the early Q3 beta maps in a great way! Those who have seen the early Q3 screenshots or even played the IHV test version of Q3, might agree. Better than the whole Lost Arena pack ;)
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