Feel welcome to send in a real review if you like.

All this time ... and I've been missing out big stylee. Thanks for the linkage Tig's moff to download them all :D

Ahh.. but I did :] Check out this link -> lvlworld.com/author/Tigger-oN

• Martin Luther King Jr. (1929-1968)

Me thinks Tig should start using cookies to stop the vote spammers.

keep it coming tig...:-)

Great work Tig. Hope to see another one from you soon.

tig: hint, hint.

Bauul: shut up, whinging bitch.

-Andy.

Also, to those carping about tigger's reviews: all reviews are based on the reviewer's subjective experience and judgement. If I review a movie, I give my personal judgement of it; I don't poll a group of people to determine what a majority thinks about it.

If you don't understand that essential principle behind all personal reviews, then you're just stupid.

Over the past few days I have been REALLY stressed out lately. i'm not usre where that message came from, it was just an unpleasent compliation of all the thoughts thay had been washing around involving ..::LvL.

It was only the next day I realised I had posted a monster, but, always taking pride first, tried to justify my reasons in my second long message.

However, looking back, I made a mistake. I assume Tig spends alot of his spare time running LvL and for some ass hole like me to come along and tell him he was being a nasty git was a tad, errrr, unpleasent. Hell, i'm seriously sorry for the stuff I said, it was unthought out, unpleasent, directly accusing and thourally insulting and uncalled for.

I'm really really really sorry for anything I've said, and I take full responsibilty for any illfeelings created.

However, some good can come of this, so here are the practical answers to all the statements/questions:

Tig:

IPs:

The IP tracker doesn't work. I'm really sorry to inform you, but i know my IP changes every time I logg on to the net, so I could, in theory, vote for a amp hundreds of times by logging on, voting, and then logging off and repeating.

Map queue:

I'm not surprised other people suggested it, or the fact it was in the works, but it was just another thing to argue about. sorry about that.

As for removing my maps: errr, umm, yes. Get rid of Darkayne. It was deliberatly spelt wrongly becuase it oringonally wasn't going to be a complete remake, but I got caught up doing something else, so rushed it and and posted it. Delete it, I'll re do it along time from now and hopefully make it alot better.

Oh yeah, alot of people liked Metro. That map was the only reason I was offerd a place by SystemKrash to work on Hunter with them, which was also the only reason Darkayne turned out to be utterly shit. Even I have deleted that thing from my hard disk!

I say again, I'm seriously sorry for anything and everything I said about LvL. It is a brillaint mapping site, one of the best, if not the best anywhere on the web. ok, so maybe Cranky Steve's is better. :)

I just hope like hell now Facing Worlds turns out to be good. Although, I say now, I doubt it will be anywhere near as good as it was on UT. There will be some missing texture, or some misailigned brush that I missed somwhere, and that will ruin the image. It also won;t be too good as the Q3 engine just can't handle a map of it's size, so serious reductions had to be made. Hell, the asteroid is so long you can even "touch" the sky at some points, but that was completely unavoidable due to the size restrictions on a map.

I think I'll go make another map for Hunter and not bother with a normal Q3 one for a while, should make a refreshing change.

Yours,

Deeply sorry,

Bauul.

PS: Tig, would you say Dakyne was good as a 1 on 1 map? Cos that's how big I like my 1v1 maps, I'm it appears to be alot bigger than what most people like.

• Mandog is female :]

• Bauul - we track the ip of the pc that makes a post or a vote of a level, its easy to see who voted what score for what map.

• Bauul - a number of people (like 10 or 12) suggested a map queue, some before you, some after you. However I had already had it in the works, but I was just working out the best and quickest way of doing it. Bauul, if you want me to send you a copy of the emails just let me know and i'll dig them up for you.

• Mandog and I run ..::LvL in our spare time, somethings take a while to coming action.

• Bauul - I can remove your maps if you like, and there are other review sites as well.

• The whole idea of ..::LvL is for the genreal public (you lot) to comment on level/maps/map packs and for you to rank them what you think they should be ranked.

• We only do a short review in order to encourage public comment.

• We often comment on a level once its been review, and will also place info in the review in the form of an update if needed, after the review has gone up.

• The reason why the score is NOT included with the other info is there is only a small amount of space there for it. Also, the inital score is easy to weight with a few votes (under 15 say) and the score is also not a fair reflection of a map. I would rather people read the comments people post before looking at a score.

And on a side note, Bauul's bastardisation of G1ZMO's Dakyne (which Bauul even failed to spell correctly) came off light if you ask me. It was a favourite level of mine which I had played for hours at a time. Bauul's metro map is riddled with errors (like the brushes not even touching, r/jump out of the level etc...) and should have been rejected. Also I think the comments (besides Bauul's) on Metro speak for them self. To find Bauul's levels do a search for Bauul

well.. what was to be a short reply turned large, sorry everyone - maybe qmap www.planetquake.com/qmap/ is the place for such discussion. (...and i didn't answer everything)

"So? He runs the site, but that doesn't alone mean his opinions on a map are the first and final word on everything, now does it?"

That's the "that".

And to comment on what you posted now:

You say you took the matters in your own hand and managed to get your map in the top ten? The top ten on who's site? Oh you know the answer, it's .... Tig's.Doh...

Just that your map was posted on this site gave you the opportunity to work it into the top ten. If Tig and Mandog weren't posting every map submitted, a lot of people weren't even be able to show off their stuff. Without lvl, how do you think an unknown mapper would be able to show off his maps?

If you feel that the fate of your map is decided on the grounds of TWO people's ideas...I have a solution for you: Don't submit your maps to lvl. Or: Make your own map- review / map-presenting site.

There is no real border between 'subjective' and 'objective'. You will learn by growing a little older.

And now... I'm getting bored. Bye.

Sorry, rock, but I didn't once intentionally imply that it was my right to have the maps on LvL. I have re read my message and can find no such comment. All I am saying is that the main appeal of the site is that the people decide which maps are great and which suck, but it seams to me that everybody's idea of a map is instantly swung one way or the other depending on what Tig or Mandog thinks of it. I just don't think that's very fair, that's all.

Oh yeah, "Face it Bauul, that's exactly what it means". What is exactly what it means? What's "That"?

And on the subject of my metro map... heh heh heh. If it was just left to Tig and Mandog, that thing would have been downloaded 20 times. I worked like shit to get that map more regognition becuase I thought it was a real laugh, and everybody who i knew who played it thought it was a real laugh, and then to have LvL say it was crap actually hurt quite a bit.

So, I took matters into my own hands, and by working day and night, managed to pull the score up so high it got into the top 10. Around 1000 people downloaded it before most of them realised it was a real love/hate map, and borught the score down to around 6, where it is now.

Alot of people told me on LvL that my map was really great, and they would have missed it completely if it hadn't been in the top 10 for a few days. That is in itself proof that Tig and Mandog's opinions on a map are not always 100% accurate.

If i keep this up long enough, everyone's gonna hate me so much, but someone had to say it.

btw, almost all the reviews/descriptions are co-written by Mandog, so that's two people deciding wether a map is worth downloading or not.

I think everyone can be happy that Tig does post every map submitted. Your metro map wouldn't have been downloaded 1600+ times without ..::lvl

You speak as if it were your fucking right that your maps are posted on this site. Oh, man...

And besides, what gives him the right to have his personal views in big print right at the top of any map submission? Oh, he runs LvL. So? He runs the site, but that doesn't alone mean his opinions on a map are the first and final word on everything, now does it?

I tried a few maps, Tigger has reviewed very harsh... I found out: he was completely right.

I played 'Tig's Den' several times; the score (right now: 7.55) is to bad for this map.

In my opinion, Tigger should reject more maps; if your maps transported Your smell, they must have been a candidate for the litterbox, anyway.

Captain Chaos. the BEST tourney level you have ever played? You obviously havn't played very many maps then have you. It's good, but not THAT good!

At the momment, Tig has panned my two maps (ok, so they wern't that great) and also failed to give me credit for the idea of the map queue. I seem to remember that I did suggest that feature!

I think people will get this map just becuase it was done by Tig. and he must make brilliant maps because, hey, he runs LvL, so his work must be flawless!

One more thing to rant about. Wasn't the entire idea of LvL to let the people rate and judge a map? Instead of Tig (or the other bloke, soory, can;t remember who you are) just describing a map, they rate itr themselves in the map description.

This will instantly destroy any hope of a map's popularoty on a momment if it is given a bad write up. Personally, I think tig should describe the map, and if he thinks it sucks, he should leave his feelings in the form of a comment on the map's comments page, and vote for it once.

He is just a player and a mapper, just like everyone else. Just the fact that he runs LvL does not give him the devine right to praise or condem a map over anybody else's views.

If he got a map that was brilliant, but he said it sucked, no-one would download it. This should NOT be allowed. Tig, I think you should stop leaving your personal views on a map in the map description. It is a description of the map, not a place for opinions. The place for opinions is HERE, in the comments section.

to further this cause, i believe a map's vote mark or rank should be posted along with the map type, no. of players and d/l on the front page.

IMO this site is becomming a site where maps are only judged by a select few people. this is highly unfair and should not be allowed to continue.

Take my second map, Darkayne. In the map description Tig said "the textures are dull and boring". This is NOT a description, it is an opinion! And that is NOT the way this site was ment to be!

Someone may argue that Tig's comments protect people from downloading rubbish, but whether a map is rubbish or not depends on who is playing it! If Tig wants to say its rubbish, he can in the comments section like every body else!

He does not and I repeat does not have some devine right over everybody else. This is a map site for the people and the people alone should decide whether a map be praised or condemd.

I challenge anybody to correct me on this matter!

'Because of the fact I'm only existing in my comrade Steinecke's devastated imagination, I have to leave my... wooden bed like him after it is 12 o'clock. This time (last night) I offered him my highquality sunglasses, -so he was able to play Tigs Den for more than 35 minutes in a row. He was so impressed, he had to make the decision to give a 10 for this fantastic map, to make a 9 out off the 8, formerly given by him. (Maybe he was a little bit influenced by Planetquakes 'Level of the Weak'-thingie, hehe.)

The third member of our party, rather primitive Quadaffi, sat in his tent (together with something, he announced to us to be his fiance Shirley Quadmuffin; but I suppose, it's all a joke; neither will they ever have a marriage, nor having children; -together), he sat in his tent on the kitchenfloor and was playing maps with mushrooms included (the-maps-including -mushrooms), so we had no opportunity to ask for his destructive opinion. (Last thing, he said, before entering his tent: 'They took some silicone out of Romeros head... and planted it into his wife!') But he tends to give zero points for maps, wich are not even decorated with a picture of a mushroom as an absolute minimum.

So, at the end we gave 9 points!'

Ok enough whining Red! This looks like one way cool map and will probably be the first in my download list. Let's pray that I get my DSL modem today !!! :)

The bots played very very well. I can see Tig chose his bots very well. I however did not see any bots go to get the red armor. It was always there for me to get.

The weapons were chose well. None of them seemed to be to much more than the other. Incredably there was no plasma gun? This is strange but it really makes the map feel different.

9/10 a great map, easy layout, high fps, feels like an id map, Not many places to go.

Is it true that two of your mates (Many hands & More than one)have recently had there Designer Shades surgically removed, wonder if I could buy them?

I don't really know, why Your machine did a nasty thing like this, the map seems to function correctly. Maybe You should check Your hardware? the configuration?

played this map.

....why???

not entered: There are several aspects to linguistic success. Using proper spelling (which I generally obey) is only one such detail; using correct grammar is another. I'll promise not to tear at your grammar errors if you stop obsessing over all spelling errors (whether real or imaginary).

I think we now owe it to ourselves to move on. Tig and Mandog, bring forth the next batch of levels!

so if u want, go send the map into ure recycle bUn, u dont deserve it anyway

Thanks.

Plus, it was small. I'm used to Doom stlye maps, huge sprawling layouts, but this was tiny! I mean, one of the best maps I ever played for 1on1 was Darkayne (I can never remember how it's spelt) by G1ZMO for Painkreep. Many would say this was far to big for a 1on1, but I found it just right. The Edge (q2) was also great for 1 on 1. Games that have 5+ players in, IMHO, need to be huge maps. Most of the maps I have made have run out of room in Q3 because they were to big. I was going to do the lava gaint (UT) but Q3 couldn't even handle a quarter of the map due to the size restrictions.

Personally I found this map small, too red, boring textures and can be dominated by a good player.

Well, for me, it's just another map that looked like it was thrown up in a week. The Recycle Bun awaits...

Score = 5

great map!

People who seem to be having difficulty ascending the pillars (rubble) should approach the side of the lower block nearest the wall, and also jump unto the internal second pillar rather than the external, I found doing this alowed me to scale the blocks much more easily. It is also possible to jump from the opposite upper platform onto the second block and hop up to the health rapidly.

I don't mind the gothic look all that much, I actually play with r_picmip 4, so I don't see too much of the textures anyway. Why is everything the same color though? I think I would prefer darker backgrounds like blue or purple anyway.

In all its looks like a good tourney map (have to play it more to be sure). I liked the silent wood floor, and the water around the RA. It makes getting it more strategic.

I give it an 8. Good job.

thanx everyone for your feedback (both good and bad) it all helps to make my next map better :]

the rubble near the YA was added for strategic reason... low on health, jump up to the 50h, otherwise R/Jump to it, also gives a point hiding out if someone comes in from the RL towards the SG. Personally I think the rubble (or something like it) is needed there but I could have tweaked a bit more.

The location of the SG could have been swaped with the 5h near the teleport, something i didn't try before releasing it :[

There was a plasma gun in almost all of the beta levels, i think removing it has made the level more fluid and balanced (at -20h a hit for a plasma ball, its a pretty strong weapon with a blast radius)

The texturing... well, I aways wanted to do a gothic level for Q3A from the day I saw some of the early screen shots :]

Why does the map need the Plasma Gun? Allow an artist to try something new and NOT include every weapon minus the BFG. However, it would probably be fair to beg Tigger to use the Plasma Gun in his next map. Remember, including only certain weapons can be useful if you would like to dictate how the level is played. For all we know, Tig could use just the SG, GL, RL, and PG in his next level, and it will kick ass just the same. All a mapper needs to do is keep changing variables such as weapon selection around to keep his output fresh. This last detail is very important, because I've seen my fair share of levels with this weapon selection already.

But yes, I hate the rubble and SG-RL placement too.

/Rant 1

Rant 2: Custom level servers

Yes, getting servers to run a specified group of quality maps is very difficult. This is an issue the community needs to work out, but this is not the forum in which to do it.

(9)

Now, alas, where the hell are we going to play this (and other fine custom maps)? Even if the servers I know host it, no one will download it, and no one will play it. They can't be bothered, no matter how much they're told custom maps are interesting, different, etc. etc. If it's not from id, they're afraid...

Time to pressure id into doing more in the way of support for custom mapping than answering

qeradiant questions. How much skin off their back would it be for them to sponsor a map-of-the-month?

Just kidding, this map is great. My biggest gripes with this level are the pillars and the Shotgun-Rocket Launcher placement, but most of other stuff is little.

Reminds me a little of devdm1, another underated level. I liked the custom bots and the clip counts.

8+, but 9- because of the gothic textures. ;)

for a weird reason only base style maps i like are from q1,i think the q1 and 2 engines are better for base loookin maps the q3 is more gothic/organic suited of course for different tastes are different colors

o btw a 9 for me

the conectivity of this map is awesome

I dont know what problem people have with the gothic style :)

IMHO it rulez.

SCORE: 9 (Goth textures prevented it being a 10; layout was perfect)

Now to the aestheic appeal of Tig's Den, well first, I am tired of Gothic settings and think that the UT community are showing more originality in creating interesting environments for us Gladiators (except for Meat & Mr Clean); this dissappoints me as I am a great fan of Quake. That said, Tig has done quite a nice job here and in my opinion has added just the right amount of detail and hasn't overdone it, I actually found myself liking the surroundings; somewhat. Although, there were a couple of textures I disliked, the windows were too ornate and I didn't care much for the glaring colour; the custom designed teleports looked average and think that Id's Metal ones with the foggy surface would fit better; don't know what to think of the sky, not overly appealing, but was significant in that it added character to the arena. Also, the large mound beside the water in the outdoor area needs to be more rounded as it looks too sharp: though it was an excellent place to hide in order to ambush Tig when he went for the RA. Overall, I think you did a good job.

Tig, hope I wasn't too critical about the appearance, probably stems from over-exposure to this setting. Would be very intersted to do battle in a Tech, base style arena designed by you, as your skill at layout is flawless.

Really enjoyed playing this map, also the chance to give you a thorough good whipping enhanced the overall experience greatly; looked suspicouslly like your still forgetting to turn the safety off. Another thing, I suppose you still haven't refrained from wearing that costume out in public, well can't really blame you, as I found it sure helps attract the babes, they just love it.

I like waffling, did you guess?

The deeper water is cool because it makes the RA a risk.. it's very advantagous to get it.. so it's worth the risk =)

I hope to see people playing this level 1-on-1 because it's very well balanced while still being fast paced.

i give it a 10

best one from you i seen so far, though i think you should get over the GOTH.. i seen enough of it.

Score: 9

Good work and keep 'em coming.

I couldn't make up my mind as to deciding if it was either a pretentious or a gutsy move to post your own map on your own review site, but the professionalism that shows throughtout your level makes it a worthy contender to the best maps out there.

im speechlees....

shame on those ID guys for creating junk such as tourney3 blah :D

/end of rant

Deathmatch maps take creativity and gimmicks... 1on1 maps take skill, planning, and hardwork. This level is very well suited for 1on1, although I'm sure it could play well in DM (I'm not a DM fan, so my opinion there doesn't count for much). All in all, a lot of work went into this map, and it shows. 10/10

I also liked the addition of the "tig bot" if this is the model you use all the time....it explains a lot :-p

I wont score this map ,some of my favorite maps have gotten rotten scores at this site....you either like it or you dont...I like it ,well done

One thing that I've not really liked about the "id gothic" look is that it is too busy and gaudy. First because that just doesn't look that good to me, and second because it makes it harder to pick out players. I actually prefer Tig's more restrained texturing here. It's cool with me if people like the Disco Dungeon style better :-) but I think it's obvious that Tig was intentionally being a bit more subtle here, not that he didn't know how to texture. Map looks good to me, although my personal tastes lean toward tech or industrial texture sets.

Well I don't have the time to blab in detail about gameplay specifics, and I've only played a couple of bot matches on it, but they were quite fun. The architecture proportions are dead-on for a small-to-medium duel map, and the topology and items make for a nice flow that seems to use all the parts of the map. Thumbs up.

I'm assuming the silent wood floor is intentional, but I didn't like it. Wait for promode.

But this map has a beautiful sky. Gameplay is very good. Bots do fine. There is atmosphere.

So I'm giving 8 points.

1.It's not only gothic, it's bland gothic texture and lighting wise (dunno if you were going for framerate here, if so it was well done just me and my kick-ass comp like eye-candy...hehe)

2.This is me specifically (again) but I don't like 1on1 all that much. So it only kind of works.

Still, a perfectly good level to have and play. Bots were a little off, I think online play should go better (especially for tourney, I just can't find the bot skill level to match me in 1on1, either too hard or too easy).

Layout was good, tele's looked kwl (eye-candy after all ;) ). Central YA tells ya it's for 1on1 (else it would be a quad wouldn't it?)

Has real potential for an DM level, like I said I don't like 1on1 prepares to beg could you possibly maybe make a DM release of it? I think it could really work....if anyone else thinks so could you perhaps say so here so Tig will consider it? =)

If you "want" to make the DM version just drop me a line at adrianlarose@home.com (if you want my thoughts on what you could move around for DM).

After all, must consider all maps fairly. This is an 8 for a tourney map, so an 7 it is. And you know that's gonna bring up the average wtf is going on here? =)

Happy Fraggin!

Octovus

Its an ok map sure...but the extra thingy isn't there...Just one moore of thoes lookalike maps..

Good work but not what i would call something different..!!

Its an ok map sure...but the extra thingy isn't there...Just one moore of thoes lookalike maps..

Good work but noe what i would call something different..!!

Well --->beautifull, fun and balanced!!! Not much so go download it people and LEARN!