Maps with extra content...
Started by Martinus
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Martinus Rep. 592
#1   30 Aug 2015
I'm always try to add more stuffs to my works (like extra maps), and now I have a weapon pack, and I would ask, if I attach my weapons to my upcoming map project as a choosable, optional, separated extra stuff, that can be a problem or just maps allowed here without extra contents?
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Tig Rep. 1622
#2   30 Aug 2015
There is no problem adding extra stuff unless it conflicts with or changes the default game (or other custom maps). If that happens, then you need to make a simple mod instead. Both would be excepted here at ..::LvL for review too.
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leilei Rep. 413
#3   30 Aug 2015
I was hoping maps that gratuitously replace other content would be stuck to the past. Was annoying when some maps in 1999 replaced the menu backgrounds, weapon skins, etc.

The most common media replacement some maps do are platform sounds as Q3 didn't ship with any since their lifts are unused, and the funny thing is that the manual STILL mentions them....

If you're going to replace something like a model texture, to suit your maps purpose better (i.e. bikini skin for slash for a beach) you should use the shader remapping entity functions instead.

Edited 1.23 minutes after the original posting.

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Martinus Rep. 592
#4   30 Aug 2015
My stuff will not replace anything, just the weapon models, coming in with a serparated package(pk3) file , which will be choosable (optional to use) to put among the other package files in the baseq3 folder. I'm not planning to change the original maps, textures, shaders, player models, etc... (After my first map posted here, I'm keeping myself to make content nearly standalone without using or touching the original stuffs.)

I think it will be ok (as I read your reply comments), but I thought to ask it before I do something. :)

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KommissarReb (SW12) Rep. 2332
#5   31 Aug 2015
The most common media replacement some maps do are platform sounds as Q3 didn't ship with any since their lifts are unused, and the funny thing is that the manual STILL mentions them....

About that...what map was shown in the image in the Quake III manual that shows the lift?

Edited 1.1 minutes after the original posting.

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CZghost Rep. 1651
#6   31 Aug 2015
LOL, these "lifts" are actualy func_bobbing entities :D - these are only described as self-moving elevators/lifts that could move player to upper, but also possibly to lower platforms. These maps are q3dm19 Apocallypse Void and q3tourney6 The Very End Of You. Quake III Manual is only guide to how to play the game, not what the game actualy supports as this game was first released in 1999, but after that many things changed during upcoming point releases. It's just not the original Q3 that was released back in 1999... These lift that actualy act like lifts from Quake II were just forgotten to remove from the code or game creators decided to leave them there as an easter egg. func_plat entities are however described in mapping guide for Radiant users, but there it says it is obsolete and did not be used in the game by developers and there are no sounds for the lift platform resulting in beeps during the platform move. You can add your own sound variations, but likely it is engine-global, so any other variations will override the previous one depending on pk3 name (the latter overrides the previous, sorting alphanumerical 0-9, a-z). CPMA allows to set custom directories for func_plat sounds, but this works only there, for baseq3 it is useless. Good advice is to not use func_plat in final products. Overriding sounds is a bad idea as the game does not know this one belongs to this map. If you need to override some graphics for your map (example be Hypercube by sst13 with cartoonish RL booms), it is possible to iniciate trigger_once at the start of a game pointing to shader replace function, which replaces default shader for RL boom with the cartoonish one, but only for this session, only for this map. Loading any other map or return to main menu restores the default shader. However I do not know any way to do the same for sounds. These are hardcoded and can't be changed on-the-fly by target...
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KommissarReb (SW12) Rep. 2332
#7   01 Sep 2015
@CZghost: I was referring to the Lifts image, not the Platforms image. I know the difference between the two.

Also you didn't even answer my question.

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CZghost Rep. 1651
#8   03 Sep 2015
Do you mean this? quadpower.atspace....creens/lift.jpg

Well, I don't know. Probably some beta screen with easter eggs. I do not remember original ID's map in Quake 3 that had lifts actualy...

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KommissarReb (SW12) Rep. 2332
#9   04 Sep 2015
The link 404'd. If you have the Quake III manual, you can find the image I was talking about (Enviroment/Lifts). In all of the standard Quake III maps that I'm aware of, there were no lifts. Could I be mistaken? Does anyone have the Quake III Arena manual and recognize the map in the image representing the Lifts in the Environment section?
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Blood Rep. 334
#10   04 Sep 2015
Hey Komm, I still have the manual and box. On page 16 it says

"Lifts: Scattered throughout the arenas is an assortment of lifts. When a gladiator steps onto a lift it begins to rise."

I dont recognize the levelshot shown in the manual, just shows a basic lift. As far as i know there are no lifts in q3. I've only ever seen them used by custom mappers.

Edited 4.17 minutes after the original posting.

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PaN61 Rep. 377
#11   04 Sep 2015
The developers at ID probably created the manual content way before the game was finalized. There may have possibly been maps in the WIP stages that had incorporated lifts into the gameplay, but weren't chosen to be apart of the finished product.
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CZghost Rep. 1651
#12   04 Sep 2015
It was working before. The sites are probably down now due to copyright infridgement. But I've seen the image and it has no larger view, so I can't tell which map it is. If someone has testing alpha and beta versions of Q3 yet, go ahead and show us :)
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leilei Rep. 413
#13   05 Sep 2015
>The developers at ID probably created the manual content way before the game was finalized.
The weapons page makes that most evident. Still a purple plasma gun, a gray/red BFG, the green-light railgun, and the grenade launcher with the ring... If you also look at pictures of the menu you'll notice the old green background's still there.

Infact i'm working on a page that covers some unused stuff and changes:
tcrf.net/Quake_III_Arena
tcrf.net/Quake_III_Team_Arena

Anyway the reason why I brought up the lift (heh) is that maps fill in the missing resources for that. Quake Live might have a canonical lift sound pulled from the archives....maybe. No prototype has lifts either, and could be from when Q3 was just a bare "Christian Antkow and Tim Willits gun each other with assault rifles in a brimstone dungeon" game. Given the use of Quake2 sounds as placeholder in the prototypes it's probably expected to hear an appropriately stroggy Quake2 lift sound lifted from Quake2. (heh)

Edited 48.35 minutes after the original posting.

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GuitarMan Rep. 468
#14   06 Sep 2015
Also you didn't even answer my question.

He did. As usual, you didn't get it and replied in a bad manner.

Does anyone have the Quake III Arena manual and recognize the map in the image representing the Lifts in the Environment section?

I've got it :) it shows on the printed manual and also on the html manual that's installed with the game.
img254.imagevenue.com/img.php
although that was not included on any map; I guess those entities got the bots seriously confused and doing things they weren't supposed to do, so the developers took the easy way out and removed them from the game content.

@leilei: great stuff you've got there! I did know about some of those, and didn't know others. I used to fiddle with the pk3 files to find stuff for my old Q3 site (can be found at the Internet Archive under planetquake.com/eyeball) and I did notice a lot of that missing stuff. Thank you for bringing back the memories.

Edited 3.22 minutes after the original posting.

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KommissarReb (SW12) Rep. 2332
#15   08 Sep 2015
He did. As usual, you didn't get it and replied in a bad manner.

It seemed at first that he was referring to the platforms. And there's no reason to get defensive merely because you misinterpreted my words as being excessively abrasive. I skimmed through most of what he said, but its easier to read something when its done in shorter paragraphs.

I've got it :) it shows on the printed manual and also on the html manual that's installed with the game.
img254.imagevenue.c..._520lo.jpg
although that was not included on any map; I guess those entities got the bots seriously confused and doing things they weren't supposed to do, so the developers took the easy way out and removed them from the game content.

Thanks for the image! I couldn't find it, and the link to the Internet browser version of the manual that's in my Quake 3 Arena/Extras folder wont link for some reason. I suppose the map featured was never included in the final game, but the mysteriousness of it is what intrigues me...

Edited 1.82 minutes after the original posting.

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