Box map stigma
Started by leilei
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leilei Rep. 413
#1   22 Apr 2014
In UT it's all fine to have 90 degree angles and no curves. Some of the most popular maps were literally giant boxes.

Obviously there is a obsession about curvatures in Q3 and some maps are judged against for their lack of them, some with a closing line in their reviews being "box map". Should I still be worried?

It's why I was never a mapper, since QuArK is a jerk when it comes to beziers. I'd learn radiant, but learning radiant is like.... learning radiant. It conflicts with the Worldcraft-esque UI i've learned of in 1997, and none of these mapping tools seem elegant like Trenchbroom or even Blender, which are tools I could work primarily in the 3d view.

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Tig Rep. 1672
#2   22 Apr 2014
There are "box maps" which are basically a big box with very little else happening - these are often seen as boring and very rarely interesting.

Then there are "boxed maps" which are a standard map with interesting things happening, however the author has a leak during the compile and in order get around the issue, places a large sky box around the entire map. What the author should have done however is find the leak and fix it - but this takes time unless you know what a pointfile is and how to use it.

There are a lot of good maps on ..::LvL which do not include a single patch (curve), just brushes. There is nothing wrong with that at all.

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Blood Rep. 334
#3   25 Apr 2014
I think it's because box maps are the easiest maps to create. All mappers start by making massive boxes and filling them with boxy brushwork, with jump pads connecting their boxy platforms. Make a big cube brush, hollow it out, make a rectangle for a hallway and hollow it out too, then make another big cube and hollow it out, and soon enough you have two boxes connected by a rectangle hallway.

The more removed a map is from that most basic of map archetypes, you can begin to grade its creativity and playability. Maps without curves can be among the best maps, but they are often extraordinary feats of complex brushwork that no beginner could pull off, and are thus much much different than beginner box maps.

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Takkie Rep. 1798
#4   26 Apr 2014
cpm1 aka wicked is a map without curves and without a doubt one of the best q3 maps. Curves are part of the decisions you make as a mapper. It is for a player easier to move around a curved corner. Sometimes you want that sometimes you don't. It also influences the line of sight a curved corner has a wider line of sight. Bot behaviour, clipping, hinting all change if you as a mapper decide to add a curve or not.... Iirc curves are also quicker to render by the q3 engine and so give a little better performance... Curves are not difficult to make in a map and once you add one to your map you'll add more to keep the style cohesive throughout the entire map.

Hmmm, in q2 maps it is very normal to use elevators in q3 maps the jumppad is used instead.

Back on topic, @reiayanami749 you don't make q3 maps because of radiant or because of the use of curves in most q3 maps? Or because of the tools you like to use don't support q3 map making? I'm confused... If you want to make a q3 map just make one, if you don't want to use curves, don't use curves. If you want to use blender for map making, use it... No problem....

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leilei Rep. 413
#5   26 Apr 2014
I don't make Quake3 maps because of two reasons: Editor familiarity from Hammer/Worldcraft style UI, and the only option for that familiarity being a stagnant-since-1999 program oriignally for Quake with bugs that have not been fixed for over a decade (like brushes and verts not being able to snap to the grid, the definite telltale of evidence of QuArK mapping)

Also as soon as I place brushes, my immediate plan for a layout vanishes in my head so there's that creative block too.

and like many commenters suggested on bad maps from time to time, i'm holding off uploading to ..::LvL until I have a Q3 map that's worth a damn playing.

tig_bz is inspiring though. Shader remapping! You can even do it to players for special themed maps! like a xmas map giving everyone xmas skins or a beach map putting everyone in swimsuits

Edited 1.82 minutes after the original posting.

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Takkie Rep. 1798
#6   26 Apr 2014
Ah, yes. That's why i only map for q3. I'm only familiar with Radiant and other games don't appeal to me... Yes shader remapping is interesting, cpma uses it to create bright-colour skins for all player models. Your idea's are pretty cool.
In the quake3world editing forums themuffinman released a alpha version of a multi-team mod for q3. He planned to use that shader trick to create team skins for up to six teams...
Looking back on my mapping there are a couple of maps that i wouldn't release anymore but still these maps pushed me to create better maps.
For the creative block, i know there are a lot of mappers that have the same block most of them draw their map out on paper first so they got something that keep the idea in check. Or some use photography (of architecture) to stay in the flow....

Edited 1.93 hours after the original posting. Correcting typo's and other things because i shouldn't post when i'm half asleep...

Edited 1.96 hours after the original posting.

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