By the way, is this turning into a f'n Newsgroup now? Take the chit chat crap to your local NG. Waaaaahhhh!

;^)

This is more fun than the score lets on.

Sorry dude, no offence taken, I did jump to conclusions, I had at first thought you were someone I might know having a go at me since you did not leave a nick, anyway cheers!

Is it that strange that i feel that way? In no way did i intend to make u cry or get u stressed out. I don't dislike ur "work" but as i said before i don't like the style of map u make....?

O and sorry for the exageration but i didn't really see that as being a big problem, even though Zara said it was a positive comment it doesn't really matter, because that depends on which way you look at it.

How did i make sterotypical comment? Well elaborating on my "very generalised and sterotypical comment about what Quake is about" I've concluded that even if i wrote page of crap to support my arguement u would still hate me.....I thought u were the kind of person that could just take a couple of bad comments(I mean 1)

I played ur map more just to c if i had made a bad judgement........However had the RL dominated

And Zara i also play the map Big_box recently (I think thats the name) and even though it didn't have a RL gaulents and telefragging were really fun! It was far more entertaining then some maps..........

Hey, just passing by again to see how this was doing.

When I said "fast game of chess" I meant it in a positive way. The map requires awareness of your opponent's position instead of being a simple "gib fountain" like some maps are.

You know what I mean.

I've always thought that the whole purpose of a tourney map was to make the most of that "mano a mano" experience. It's a test of tactical and reflex/aiming skills. Surely this is more stimulating than a simple box with a RL in it.

not entered - 11 jul 2000 10:17

Hmm strange you should feel that way, then again you must suck at quake in general if you find my maps to complicated? either that or you have a grudge against me, your post was obviously aimed at getting a bite and stressing your dislike of my work?

"ppl have compared this map to a fast game of chess" erm only one person I'm aware of and that was Zara.

You make a very generalised and stereotypical comment about what Quake is about, please elaborate Mr Expert...

Me thinks that this map like every other map Shovel has made is too complicated and looses the raw death match feel of the game. PPl have compared this map to a fast a game of chess(kinda fun) But thats not what quake is about..........?

I love fast tight tourney maps, and this one is very nice.

Caw thanx guys! :)

I've played with the idea of adding more areas to it to make way for an FFA possibility? watchya think?

The other idea is to use this theme for a single player map for Milk Inc's Q3SP mod.

Okay, I played this some more (always a good sign.)

I stand by what I said before, but having gotten to know the map even better, I must say I am beginning to see more of the depth of gameplay in it.

Really nice job on that ShoveL.

The teleporters are very useful once you get to know them. One of the coolest things was watching from above and seeing Doom go through a teleporter and appear right near me! Wahoo! It was fun doubling back and ducking in and out. Also, as I got to know the map better, I got better at seeing where I was going and the tightness of the map wasn't as bad as before.

With this map, "Lunar Outpost" by Yngwie, and "Lost Forever" by Kodiak, I'm becoming more of a fan of the small tourney map (I mostly liked the big ones before.)

I think the map's score should be at least a point or so higher than it is right now (at 5.43/7 votes.)

Aight... there are definitely 4 working spawns. I must have just been having Satan's own bad luck.

It does still seem like there need to be more spawns. However maybe CPM has a different spawn policy than base Q3 (or CQA)... I'll ask `em.

Well, I checked the entities and I see four info_player_deathmatches. So either two of them aren't working or I just had an incredible run of bad luck. Guess I'll check back in on this again later. :-)

This is almost a great map, for what it is. I'll get back to that "almost". :-) It does about as good a job as you can do with the small/tight map genre. There's lots of pillars to dodge behind, alternate routes, and places to drop down or jump to, so that surprise encounters don't always result in players just standing toe to toe and slugging.

I like the look too, very clean, attractive and a bit original without being too busy.

A few comments on previous comments :-) ...

1. Yes the rail can be quite useful, since your opponent's movement is restricted.

1. I thought you created that trick jump to the YA on purpose... now I'm disillusioned. :-P

1. It is frustrating at times to get around this map in base Q3. However, I play using Challenge Pro Mode, so the extra air control allows you to really zip around this map, taking corners at speed. If CQA has extra air control too (and I'll bet it does), then I can see how this map would also be better in CQA than in base Q3.

OK, now back to my "almost".

Two spawn points. Two spawn points??? OMG. That is just... bad. First of all, because Q3 has a very limited spawn-farthest algorithm; when there are only two spawn points in the map it's quite possible for someone to "spawn-nearest" instead. So you get sequences like you kill someone at the railgun, they die, then as you're leaving they respawn at the railgun and rail you in the back. Or you kill them again instantly. Either way, not good.

Even if spawn-farthest always worked, there's another problem, in that you can often make a really good guess at where your opponent respawned.

Just two or three more spawn points would have improved this map immensely. I guess I'll lay a 7 on it, with the caveat that movement can be frustrating unless you play it with a mod that has air control, like CPM or CQA.

Well I've played this map against someone who knows its layout very well (IE: ShoveL himself ;)). And man it cains. Shov slaughters me on this map. When he says learn the tele's etc take his advice, because it really is the key to the game. I couldnt count the number of times Shov just 'ports in and frags me then disapears again ;). Its an unbelievably fast map. I think playing this map against a person who knows it well will really help your reflexes. You have to be on your toes the whole time. And as for the rail being nearly useless: I thought the same thing initially. I consider myself a pretty good railer, but I still didnt pull it out very often and just concentrated on the rock. But once again, Shov schools me on how the rail can be used in this map. I dont know what it is, but Shov's close range rail skills blow me away... He smashed me with it ;).

Anyway, all in all, its a great fast map. After a 15minute game with an experienced player you will come away puffing and needing a 5 minute break ;). Nice one Shov. Keep em coming!

shov rawks ;p

I found this map just a teensie bit too small for my liking - however, the level design was good. Just a few comments, though:

1. I didn't like the dead end by the railgun. Why not put a teleporter here or something to keep the gameflow going?

1. When playing with bots, they would often backtrack through teleporters constantly.

ShoveL,

Hey, I see what you're saying. Based on that, I think this map deserves to get played for a while longer to get to know it. What is interesting about the gameplay concept is that it is a little like a fast-paced chessboard. You don't perform many athletics (dodging) but you try to gain position on your opponent and nab them. Maybe this map deserves a better score. I mean, it does look good, and I'm becoming more convinced it plays pretty good too.

thanx zara

the key to this map's game flow is learning the position/destinations of the tele's. Once you know them like the back of your hand they become very handy for ambushing or doubling back to give your oponent a nasty surprise

it's conception was for 1v1

I submitted it for use with the Classic Quake Arena Mod and the Milk guys decided to make it the 2nd tourney map. I did tweak the tele's slightly in that version, plus some of the weap and item changes for the mod. I actualy prefer the CQA version a bit more than the q3 vanilla one.

Oh yeah there's a trick jump to the yellow armour over the stairs, some beta testing friends discovered it, I had at first thought it impossible?

requires a double bunny hop strafe jump :)

In addition, if this map were changed to be a bit more sizeable in some places, I mught be inclined to give it an "8" or something like that. It's too bad, really. I hope this author makes more maps, because this one shows a definite degree of ability.

First off, I think this map was truly meant only for 1 on 1 games. I tried to play with more than that and became instantly annoyed.

With that out of the way...

I have to say that I did have fun somewhat playing against Doom on hardcore. It was definitely a fast-paced game, as the map is small and you meet your opponent often. I could hear him almost at all times.

However, overall, the map is just way too tight for my tastes, but I'm sure some will like it. Also, I wasn't crazy about the railgun location, but it was still fun to see if Doom would be at the door (which he was, frequently.) I'm not even sure why a railgun is necessary on this map, but it was usable some of the time.

The whole map flows a bit jerky and its even a bit of a challenge to run around in it by yourself. This is a function of the fact that the whole map is made of extremely tight turns. Often there really isn't any room to dodge, and the map often becomes an itchy-trigger-finger test (who can pull the trigger first upon meeting the other player in a hallway.)

Overall, though the fast pace makes up for these annoyances to a degree, so its not completely bad.

The visuals are actually fairly good, but I wasn't wowed by them. Still, everything looks well put together and the texture choices are all good. I'd say this was a solid "good job" by the author. The execution is good, but concepts are average.

So, the fatal flaw is that there are no rooms, just hallways and hallway-sized spaces.

I want to give it a 5.5, but I can't so I'll give it a "6."