Annom...

When I came back to this map I had the same problem ... I was like wtf!! I think I did the following:-

entered [set r_inGameVideo "1"] in the console, exited quake and then restarted it (it didn't work staying in quake for some unknown reason to me - even with vid_restart). See if that works.

Hope that helps.

Regards

Foralarx

missing eye

ok that jump is fairly easy going full speed. the hard part is to do it in 2 jumps)one to the ledge and the other to the bridge( and keeping yourself under control. beleive me or not, but this jump can be dont in one jump if your skilled! now, im still talking about dm5 here :)

Correct viper.

Regarding the "two room" case of this map, you are correct. A person should not be able to camp one room and hold most of the items. That concern is why there should be at least three rooms of significance (if you consider where the lower shards are, you can take that area to be another room) in any map. Four or more areas can work, but too many rooms or items can be "a bad thing," especially in a 1vs1.

I think what pure is saying regarding jumps is this: No jumps are really difficult at all. Its just that some of the jumps are annoying (you have to slow down and jump at just the right time) due to how they are placed.

Indeed. I've probably complained about him more than my fair share of times :-p

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One more thing:

Personal note to Pure: Thank you from those of us in the community who come here and reap the benefits of all your dedication in reviewing peoples maps.

Please, please continue to help out people like Cart by providing the sort of feedback you have provided here, so that they in turn can provide us with a means to expand on our gaming experience with the game we love.

Thank you.

Wow, it's nice to see such a good discussion going on about maps in general here. There was me thinking balance was about allowing two players to have an even stance, heh. Seriously though given the fact there are only two rooms to this map I found it hard to see how you could change the loading and allow one area to be more dominant than the other.

I think Cart's real intention here was to encourage players to move from one area to the other much more than camping a controlable area.

Anyway, the point here is that Pure really knows he's stuff, and much better than I ever will do, so I bow to his better knowledge and I wasn't implying in anyway that his review was unfair or undeserved.

I agree the mega is much harder to take than the RA, but then there is much more bounty on that side of the map. So I never bothered to mention this to Cart when playtesting as I felt it evened out that way. Soz man.

And yes I do agreed that this map does impeed on the speed of Q3 where it shouldn't but again I do feel that a player should be able to adapt himself to the playing field somewhat and that the ammount of impedement is not to great to stop me from enjoying a game ot two here.

Bottom line: Pure's review and comments are still right on the money.

Actually, I consider the dm5 jump to be far from difficult. What makes the dm5 jump okay is you can go full speed and make it. With the jump to the Megahealth from the right, if you want to jump from the platform to the other platform without jumping onto the light, you have to hesitate with your forward movement so that you can make two jumps before trying to leap to the Megahealth. Like I said, you can use this to avoid landing on the light, but this hesitation essentially slows the game down and thus annoys me very much, mostly because it keeps me from being able to run both the Red Armor and Megahealth (in which case I would have then harped on the fact there was no Yellow Armor).

The final judgement was very fair. Players who are more "competitive" that me will probably not care for it, but anyone any bit less will probably enjoy it for a while; my complaints are more subtle than what you see in other levels I have reviewed.

all the id maps the i listed contain skill jumps that are tough.. i said dm5 because it takes skill to get the ra without rocket jumping plasma climbing or going all the way around; and rocket jumping plasma climbing takes skill too, but im talking about strafe jumps..

good review by imaginary..

but i dont see any tough jumps.. there all quite easy. get some harder ones going? i dont see much of them anymore. i still love the id maps dm6 dm7 dm14 dm5.

i dont see many tourney maps or dm maps that could compare with the eye candy and gameplay equally.. mostly you see more eye candy and rarly see maps that takes skill to get to weapons. someone make a map that everyone could agree upon!

8.5

So, balance isn't exactly what it sounds like. Good balance means allowing a player to take a significant but surmountable advantage.

"Item placement is actually surprisingly well balanced at that higher level of play, (RL & MH vs LG & RA)."

Yes, the map is balanced with respect to those two areas, which is the problem. In a "competitive" 1vs1, you can't have two balanced areas be the key to the map. A player needs to be able to gain a significant item advantage without consistently running into a blatantly obvious choke point. I am not saying a player should necessarily be able to run a Red Armor and Megehealth while the other player is stuck with a Yellow Armor and some shards (although this distribution is considered the "extreme" case where imbalance does work), but consider allowing the high player to run a Megahealth or Yellow Armor against the other player's Yellow Armor, or (possibly) to run a Red Armor and Yellow Armor against a Megahealth. This is not to say that controlling these two items should be easy, but that it should be practical.

What happens if you don't let a player get an opportunity to get an advantage is that you make the gameplay boring; it doesn't really matter which area the two players take, and the game comes down to whoever has better aim.

On the jumps, I am competent enough to make all the jumps. One of the problems with this setup is that you essentially require to players to strafe jump if they want to be able to bypass having to jump off of the lights (which is not something I was perfect at). Another is that you cannot manage any type of speed while navigating particularly the left path to the Megahealth. You either have to use a hesitation strafe jump (which makes you slower than with a normal strafe jump, and you essential feel like you are tightrope walking, which isn't what I look for in q3 anyway...) or have to jump onto the lights, which slow down the player even more because of the light's angle.

I would have to play you guys to point out every little thing, but this is my reasoning.

thx for the review... it leaves space for improvement.

thx to fora for his comment. he pointed my inclination to make it a skilled tourney map out. cheers dood :)

greets to all the others ;)

Having reviewed Cart's last map here and also having helped in the playtesting of this map whilst in beta, I felt a little obligated to post a few comments here.

With two good (skilled) players this map plays very well IMHO as a tourney map. There is a certain fun element in the high ammount of cat and mouse style of play this map provides with the roles reversing very quickly from one side to the other.

Pure is right about the jumps, hence the very late addition of the lower corridor that ends in the jump pad by the red armour [my suggestion :)].

Item placement is actually surprisingly well balanced at that higher level of play, (RL & MH vs LG & RA), and I was surprised at how effective the GL was even though it was down on the lower floor.

Bot play is restricted like Pure mentions but then bots in Q3 simply suck anyway, and their only good for target practice :/

The best fun though is def. to be had as Ant mentions with three players. I say go check it out for yourself, it's one of those love or hate maps, that's for sure :/

I've tried to keep this to an un-biased opinion but it's a little difficult when you've play tested it through beta, helped with redesigns and also belong to the same clan :p

Still, looking forward to the next one my fellow clan m8 :)

This map owns to be honest, very nicely presented and fun to play! colour detail is perfect :) keep up the good work carty boy heh

This map owns TBH. Very well presented and fun to play!

-sure

+agree with

Pure the 'awkward strafe jumps or tough jumps onto the lighting geometry are necessary to navigate some of the upper regions' is what the map is all about though, and the position of the red armour and mega health back this up. You need some jump skillz =)

I think this map is a perfect size for 3 players, and the item placement is cool. I don't sure Pure's overly-negative attitude towards it :p

Played this one a while ago. Pretty fun...neat idea, making use of one Quakecon contest map object. The map is textured fairly simply with a certain green trim present on all the walkways, and similar walls. The mapobject of course livens it up a bit. Placement is a bit haphazard, meaning it didn't flow that well. Bots were ok competition - Sarge in particular did fairly well - but it's not balanced enough for tourney. 7/10

-Octovus