I don´t like it... I love it!!!

No f***ing place to hide here and I´ve playing it for months.

Excellent work ;.)

After going back and playing this map again...I'd have to say it's perfect for what it's intended for. A good solid 1 on 1 play. One of my favorites.

Excellent map Kodiak. Nice work.

Lloyd M

D2F's page can be found at:

<a href="http://endtimemods.cjb.net/d2findex.htm" target="_blank">http://endtimemods.cjb.net/d2findex.htm</a>

And we just released it today (with your map included :))...enjoy!

Vorlonesque you have my premission of course and thank you.

BTW does this mod D2F have a homepage? Id love to see it.

Kodiak, if your reading this (please be reading this :)), I'm working on a new mod called DOOMED2FRAG (D2F) and I very much want to include this level, "Lost Forever", in the mod. I would like to ask permission to do so and I couldn't get through to your E-mail listed here so I thought I'd try to use this board. :)

The smallness of this map is what makes it so much fun though. In a good 1 on 1, you can't stop for a second. You always have to be alert and trying to trick the other guy into thinking you're going where you're not going. :)

I really like it.

I played this map for about 30 minutes and got tired of it.

It's way too small, and it made me feel like a hamster running

on a wheel . It felt too constricting. The textures and layout are very nice . The atmosphere is pretty good as well.

I'd love to see a simliarly themed map , maybe about 5 times bigger....

A little small for my taste but good when considering a map with plenty of weapon choice....8.

Nice work, just a wee too dinky for my tastes.

I would like to take the opportunity to thank everybody who voted for this map and especially those who helped me create it.

I will start studying to be an Architect at the University in Budapest. So this is the end of my mapping career ;)

Happy Fraggin'

A simply awesome tourney map. Tight, fast and incredibly intense. Just the way I like it. :)

My only gripe is that there's a couple of places where a clip brush would prevent you from getting hung up slightly here and there (which is important when you're running backwards) and if I were to be really anal, the lighting is a little weird, but who cares. It plays outstanding.

I'd say this is a top three tourney map easily out of what's on this list. Addict, Blood Run and Lost Forever. Not bad company there Kodiak. ;)

I've voted on maps more than once in a week on a couple of occasions where I really liked the map (dial up connection). Few maps make me that excited though. :)

I really don't think the voting abuse is much of a problem. The great maps usually make their way to the top tens while the not so great maps that pop up in the top tens from time to time usually fade out within a few days. It all equals out in the end. This map is a good example.

mad map kodiak :)

keep it up

A little too easy to dominate from the RA platform. No open spaces for a good ol' fashioned rocket fight. Other than that, outstanding. 7 outta 10

All this blabbing about voting and I haven't posted my opinion of the actual map!

It's wonderful. I like it with two bots on hardcore. There has been a wave of small, fast maps and several have been good but I think I like this one the best.

There are a lot of little fun strategy scenario's with weapon placement and path intersections packed in here. We should all hope to be able to pump out quality like this consistently. I don't think a stick of this map is wasted.

Anyhow, the main drawback I saw was that it was still slightly tight in some places, and I got hung up on some geometry (although he cleverly left some wall details non-solid to alleviate this.) That's about it, though, I think.

Great job: 9/10

Captain, all:

Another reason I think people do this is that they take it upon themselves to "school" the rest of us with these low votes.

What I mean is that they think, in their "infinite wisdom", that the score that others have given the map is "too high," so they vote "0" to drastically reduce the score to what they think it should be. I've seen people even state explicitly that this is what they are doing. What a shame.

One good thing about the voting on LvL is that you only get one vote per week, 3 votes max. Even the biggest crank is not likely to come back a week later just to vote again. Its a little worse at Spankenstein's Reliquary, where a single voter can do massive damage by voting twice in succession with no waiting period. So a map that has a 9 after 10 votes will suddenly have a 7.6 after 12. It's a good way to stifle the rise of a map, because people will be less likely to download it and vote further. I've seen this happen, too, where a map starts out with a decent score after a few votes, and then the bomb hits. Then there's hardly any voting for a while until someone gets a clue.

*deep breath*

I suppose you could make the argument that everyone gets bum votes like this, so ultimately it doesn't matter. The scores are all relative to each other, not absolute. This may be true, but still I think the quality of the discusion would be a lot better if there were some way to discourage this behavior. If there isn't I guess its not life-and-death, so we'll just have to live with it. But its "worth a closer look" as Tigger would say. :)

The person who gave this level a score of zero, should consider how he/she would feel, if they created a quality map and it was maliciously awarded such a ridiculously low score.

Zarathustra, I totally agree with your suggestion that the person who gave this map zero points is extremely jealous. It is beyond logical reason, how anyone can truthfully award such a low score to a brilliant map like this.

I am also beginning to suspect that there are more sinister motives behind such an act, and think that vote sabotage is definitely going on.

I hope Tigger can devise a suitable method for preventing this (maybe from your ideas), as it must be disappointing for the mapper to be treated so unfairly, after having spent the time and effort to create a level for the Quake community to enjoy.

I think unless the person who cast this vote can give good reason for his low opinion of the map, the score he posted should be removed by Tigger. Otherwise LVL's credibility is being compromised; through no fault of there own, but because people wish to maliciously tamper with scoring.

Sorry for the second post...

But I sometimes think these low voters are jealous or something and just can't stand to see someone succeed above them. Is there "vote sabotage" going on here?

You know, it would be cool if there was a registration system that:

1) Forced people to log in with usernames and passwords.

2) Id an ip / id check to make sure the same person from the same system doesn't have two aliases.

3) Force every vote to be disclosed with the person's name.

This way, the board could police itself better, and cranks who go around voting "0" all the time would be exposed.

Someone gave this map a "0"?

I am continually amazed at how TOTALLY LAME some people can be.

Thank you for the comments guys.

It is too bad someone gave the map a 0 and didnt explain why...

Styx: it is the best compliment :)

Thx

The person/s who voted the map down to 8.11; why not also leave a comment and some constructive criticism of the map.

THIS is the duel map I was looking for !!

I dare to say that if this map was in the original ID release it would have been the DM4 for Q3.

....and that's just the best compliment you can ever give to a mapper.

10/10....of course :-)

Should Kodiak be working for Id?

Definitely not!

Id should be working for Kodiak!

I have to say that this is one of my favorites right now...the connectivity and pure speed here is great...the look of it isn't bad at all; there are better looking levels...but personally I'd rather play something that looked like crap and played like heaven than play pure eye candy. This ZTN's stuff and the beta map r_tourney8a are some of my favorite maps right now...if only the id maps were this good :).

Amen Hubster[NeRV].

Q1 and (ugh) Q2 maps are better for play ATM. But we have to remember, it takes about 6-8 monthes after a game is released to see the real quality in custom maps. All the people obsessed with only prettiness won't go away, but will become the miniority as people relieze how much fun and atmosphere can be created with Q3A.

"An ode to a small piece of green putty I found under my armpit one mid-summer morn"

What does the above statement have to do with this map.....sweet FA Im afraid... ..I am speechless....a 10 :-)

Oh and I forgot to say

re: Sarge (A Bot)

I agree. Kodiak DOES deserve a GF. He's made one fantastic piece of work. This outshines just about ANY level I have seen reviewed here.

<shakes Kodiak's hand>

"KICKARSE!"

:-) re: re: Lighting

Yep I did notice in the readme that this level was constructed on a system with a 3DFX-based card (ACK!).

Nevertheless, if anyone read the articles at Challenge-World regarding "Where are the Mappers?" they'll understand the state our q3 mapping community is in.

(imho)The maps for q1/q2 are at a much higher state of evolvement (in terms of mappers' knowledge of the engine, and their tools. Yes I speak as a mapper myself - and no, I havent released one for q3... yet).

I do think that q3 mappers have it tough right now. We're trying to create levels for a community in which the expectations are high, riding coatails of the brilliance that mappers for q1/q2 are setting. I still feel that it's early days for Quake III Arena, custom-maps-wise.

Unfortunately, eyecandy is something too many ppl are obsessed with, with gameplay, the REAL factor in a good level, being taken off the top of the mapper's priority list.

I was constructing a level, and at the risk of boasting, I will say that it had a HUGE amount of eyecandy. I worked on it for ages, and in the end, after playing Jude's maps, I scrapped it. I released how much of piece of crap, gameplay-wise it was, and now, I'm making a new, stripped down level, and I'm concentrating on gameplay FIRST...

Blah blah blah....

... Sorry to rant pplz, I just felt like having a say.:-)

I just think we as custom map freaks, AND mappers, should think of eyecandy LESS.

Ciao:-)

:), I think Kodiak definitely deserves to be given a Geforce, as he has provided the Quake community with some brilliant looking, fast playing levels.

Hats off to Kodiak, for his excellent maps.

A bot: I change my name in every thread. This is the only one I've ever used this in and it was to denote that my first post was meant in a light hearted manner (a joke about getting Kodiak a Geforce).

On a side note. As I type this, the map has had exactly 666 downloads. Now that's just cool.

Has this changed any from the version that was up in the beta section a while ago? I snagged it then and have been playing it ever since. What a great map - one of my all-time favourites. Good looks and excellent (addictive) gameplay.

The only issue to my mind, at least on the beta version, is the item placement. Are two RLs really justified? Also, there is a rather obvious route of teleporter to RG, jump down to health (if needed) and bounce to RA, then drop to MH. I'd be inclined to delete the RL in the cupola, replace it with the RA, and move the GL ammo and one SG ammo to where the RA was. Though that still means the RA and MH are close. Any thoughts? Apologies if this is out of date comment.

Even so, a great map, and it'd be a shame if Kodiak stops there. 9/10 and I'm tempted to go 10.

love this map, been playing it for a while with friends 1on1. now it's on the neotokyo server, a 5-6 person dm here is intensely chaotic. 9/10

I've had this map for a while and I really like it. And yes the bots are easy pickings, especially when they're around the RG area; you can rail them from pretty much anywhere on the map! It is a bit tight though, so you have to be careful or you'll get the "XXXX blew himself up" too often for your own good. Here's an 8 for a solid, if a bit tight, map.

criticism

Only winding you up :), constructive critism is very helpful to mappers. Though, what sort of name is :), you big girl's blouse..

Yeah Hubster, I agree with you regarding the lighting, these guys are just a bunch of SISSIES. Oh, I don't think I can stand playing with such lighting Mummy, it's 1% to yellow for my tastes, might hurt my peepers, whine, whine - I'm going to throw another temper tantrum.

Go and play with your Barbie dolls you PANSIES, gameplay in this level is unrivalled - though not suitable for little Mummy's boys.

Hubster[NeRV]: Re: lighting

It's just constructive criticism dude. Kodiak has mentioned in the past that due to his development setup, it's hard for him to get the lighting colors just right. Nothing to get excited about. ;)

After being hooked on q3jdm8a and q3jdm9, I dont care too much for asthetics anymore.

Gameplay is the rule of the day, and any map which doesnt satisfy this rule in my book is a dud, no matter now much the asthetics kick butt.

The connectivity is great in this level, and hiding is pretty hard to pull off. Its a great environment for tense duels.

And speaking of asthetics, the rough, dark quality of this level creates the atmosphere of a cold and damp winter. Great stuff!

Fair enough the level IS tight. I'm no fan of super-tight levels, but the author gets away with it here. The gameplay is just too good to warrant complaints about anything else.

Who cares if the lighting is too yellow or something? Hello?! Do any of you fools PLAY levels or just stand there and LOOK?!?!

This is up there with Jude's levels. No doubt.

Challenge-World, you guys should review this and add it to Promode.

NOW.

Well done - 11/10!!!!

If the railgun is what you mean, the teleporter takes you right to it. No need for an RJ. Valid point about the MH and RA though. I think perhaps replacing the YA with the RA and not having a YA at all might have been a bit better from a tourney play standpoint. Hard to say without actually trying it that way.

To clarify my earlier comment on the lighting. I took a closer look at it and the color of the torch light is just about right. It's apparently mixed in with some white or very bright light entities in some areas that was throwing me off. If you look at the YA room for example, it has a nice warm, fire lit glow to it. Go to the next hallway and the torch light is mixed with some white light that has no apparent source. Kind of clashes. Not a big deal, I just tend to really notice these things.

Still, a very good map. I think a 7.5 would be about right but I can't do that so I'll round up. "8"

RA and MH are too close, imo.

I hate RJs, especially to weapons.

I don't know, the gameflow isn't what I care for.

I remember the beta of LF Kodiak. Ah memories...

Excellent job Kodiak. 10/10 for overall greatness.

very cool!

only issue I had was the quantity of RL's lying around after a few moments of playing :)

An 8 from me

I don't think Kodiak, would stop mapping, he's to good at it, his mapping addiciton will get the better of him? or perhaps he wants to work on a different game, Single player perhaps?

One of the best maps ive played ever! wd Kodiak :)

10/10

I think we need to pitch in and get Kodiak a GeForce so he can see what the lighting really looks like. Big step up from the overly yellow lighting of The Pit and the Pendulum but now it's too white. :)

BTW, I think id uses the following RGB value for the nice, warm torch lighting in q3dm1.

1.000000 0.501961 0.250980

Just trying to be helpful. Love the map so far but I need to find a human to play it against before I score it. I suspect a very good score though.

And don't give up mapping!

Brilliant

Brilliant

10/9

Wow

Wow

9/10

Kodiak, when I stated that the indoor areas needed expanded, all I really mean is that the corridors should be just a bit wider.

The map has the best connectivity I have seen to date - superb level.

I forgot to rank it !

9 for this one !

I'm happy this map is out !

Very happy, i like it :p

Thanks KodiaK

Kodiak said in the readme that this is probably his last map for Quake 3 :(

A very good tourney map (but not for more than 2 players !)

This is one great map. Just the roght size for me, with no noticeable texturing errors. Love the water! Excellent, KODIAK, and keep 'em coming! 9/10

This map rocks, it will definetly stay in rotation for quite some time! Great gameplay and killer looks. A solid 9 in my books.

This is one of my favourite Tourny levels and it is great fun to play against Brandon or Id's custom bots as they will rocket jump out of the water and frag you while you go for the rocket launcher. Great level, though indoor corridors could do with being enlarged.

Will make further comments later.

SCORE: 9 (if indoor areas were expanded sufficiently, I'd give this level a 10)